14 —A. 4b.

A. —4b.

Were you talking long about it ?—No. Was anybody else listening ? —No. The Chairman : What became of Inu ? Mr. Meredith : He was also sentenced at tlie same time, sir. Judge MacCormick.~\ These Faipule are chiefs or men of standing, I suppose ?—These two, or Faipule generally ? These two are important orators. The others are important chiefs, too. Is it not a serious matter in Samoa to refer disrespectfully to the body of another chief, or to the imperfections of his body ?—lt is offensive if spoken in public, but between two persons there is nothing serious. It would possibly have led to war in former times, would it not ? —ln bad cases it might. Was it contrary to Samoan custom and likely to be resented ? —Yes, if very bad. Judge MacCormick : I ask because I am not aware of Samoan customs, but in New Zealand amongst the Maoris very much less than that has caused wars and great loss of life. Mr. Slipper : May I ask if your Honour will ask the witness another question. Taking the ranks of the two Faipules spoken of, which has the higher rank ? How does it compare with the rank of Inu 1 Judge MacCormick : lam not going to ask that question. Ido not think it concerns me. Mr. Slipper : Very well, I will have to bring evidence about it. Judge MacCom.ick : As far as I am concerned it is quite irrelevant. My question did not concern the relative ranks of these people at all. It was merely were they all men of rank. Mr. Slipper r There is a great deal of difference in the ranks of these men. (To witness:) What is the difference between your rank and the rank of Toelupe ?—I am a chief ; Toelupe is an orator. I do not like to say who is the higher : it is well known amongst Samoans. Just who is the higher, a chief or an orator ? —A chief is more important than an orator. Judge MacCormick: The inference you draw then, is that because the chief is the higher in rank he has the right to insult an orator ? Mr. Slipper : No, sir. I submit that my inquiry was in order and it was unnecessary to add any inference. The Chairman.'] Are you now a member of the Mau % —Yes. Have you attended any fono of the Mau ? —I joined the Mau about three months ago. Since then I have attended three meetings. Did you hear the evidence of Alipia and Tu'u ?—Yes. Given in answer to questions put by me ? —Yes. Do you agree with the evidence given in answer to my question ?—Yes. Mr. Baxter.] We have heard about the cancellation of the ceremonies about. " fine mats." Have you anything you want to tell us about that ? —I just endorse what Alipia and Tu'u said. About the medical tax : do you wish to say anything about that ? —I endorse Tu'u's remarks about that. And about the division of land ? —I do not agree that the land should be divided up. The matai should control his own land. Do you want to say anything about the Faipules ? —I do not agree with the overbearing way in which the Faipules are dealing with us in taking away titles. Can you give any examples ? —There is a person by the name of Muagutu whose title has been taken away by Toelupe. The Faipule also took away the title of a man named Auimatagi. The Chairman.] How long ago was that ? —Three months ago. Is that on your list, Mr. Slipper ? Mr. Slipper : It does not appear here. The list is up to the end of 1926. Mr. Baxter.] Is there any other complaint ? —Another grievance is that there are so many officials who inflict punishments. Is there any particular grievance that you have got ? —Every department inflicts its own fines, and it makes it very hard for the Samoans. Are there any others ? —Nothing more. Mr. Meredith.] Have you attended any Mau/owos ? —Yes. Many ? —Yes. Have any Europeans addressed the Mau/owo.s whilst you have been there ? —No. Saturday, Ist October, 1927. Mr. Baxter: Before the Commission opens I wish to refer to what was mentioned in Chambers with regard to the sittings of the Commission. I mentioned the question to my friend Mr. Slipper, and he would like to refer to the matter. The Chairman: Very well, we will hear what Mr. Slipper has to say. Mr. Slipper: The position is that it is very difficult to get witnesses to fit in, and I think in any case it was arranged that the Commission would sit for only the half-day to-day. I have been asked during the week, and even this morning, whether the Commission would sit for the half-day only, and I have told those who have been asking me the question that this would be so. The Chairman : We gave no intimation to that effect, Mr. Slipper. Mr. Slipper: I understood that it was arranged this way while we were sitting in Chambers. The Chairman : It appears impossible therefore to go on, and consequently we will have to adjourn at 12.30 p.m. to-day, until 8.15 a.m. on Monday morning next.

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