A. 4b.

Were you at that time a member of the Mau ? Please answer my question, Yes or No ? —Yes. At the malaga many of the Samoans were away from the reception to the Administrator ? —All of the people of Lepa were there, but some of the Lotofaga people were away. Did they not state that they were told by the Mau not to be there ? —I do not know, because Lotofaga is in a different district to where I live. Did you not on that occasion tell the Administrator that the people were staying away because they had been told by the Mau ? Answer my question, Yes or No ? —Some of the Lepa people were not going along to meet His Excellency because of instructions of the Mau. That is wbat I said, but all the people of our district went. Did you not tell His Excellency that the committee of the Mau had told them to stay away ?— Yes, but that refers to the committee in Lepa itself. That refers to which committee I—A1 —A sort of sub-committee. Did you tell the Administrator that the sub-committee had issued instructions not to attend ? — He did not question me as to which committee, and only the word " committee " was used. Which committee were you referring to when you told the Administrator that they had issued instructions not to attend ? —The Lepa committee. Is that Faumuina's district ? —His title in that district is Fiame—he belongs to Lotofaga. Did you tell the Administrator that the Mau committee in Apia issued instructions through your district and other districts ? —Yes. And that Mr. Nelson was going to the League of Nations ? —I did not tell the Administrator that. Did you tell the Administrator that the committee of the Mau had issued instructions to hold on and not come in ? —No. Are not the fines for not attending the malaqa fixed by the District Committee ? —No, the Faipules. Does the District Committee have any say at all in fixing those fines I—They1—They have an interest in them, but the Faipules do not consult them. Are not the arrangements for the reception fixed by the committee ?—They are called committees, but they are really the Faipules and pulenu'us. Is there anybody on the committee but the Faipule and the pulenu'us ?—Well, it is a reception for the Administrator, and only the officials make the arrangements. The Faipules do not ask anybody to help. Is there not a pulenu'u for each village on that committee ? —Yes, the pulenu'us are included in them. Do they not arrange the penalties for non-attendance ? —I do not know. Do you know about the festivals at the mission stations—are they Native chiefs who arrange those \ —All the chiefs of the village take part in them. Those festivals have nothing to do with the Administration ? —That is so. Do not the committees of those festivals penalize the Natives who do not attend ? —No. Are they not fined a pig, or so-much taro, if they do not attend ?—Yes. When you speak of the Faipules as saying they have all the power in Samoa, do you refer to a letter presented to the Minister on the Ist June of this year ? —Yes. That will speak for itself : it is the first document in A.-4b. Is this the letter [handed to witness] ? —Yes, that is the letter. Are you well acquainted with what the Samoans think respecting the objects of the Mau movement ? —Each Samoan has his own opinion. I have my own. Does your view as to the objects of the Mau agree with the evidence given by Alipia ?—I have forgotten what Alipia said. I heard what he said, but I have forgotten it. Do you agree that one of the objects of the Mau is to secure self-government of Samoa for the Samoans ?—I have forgotten what Alipia's opinion was, but my own opinion is that only heads of departments should be brought from New Zealand, and that all the other Government officials should be permanent residents here. That is not an answer to my question. My question is, Do you not understand that the object of the Mau is to secure self-government of Samoa for the Samoans ? —I am not aware of it. Do you know that Alipia and Tu'u thought so ?—I was not present at any of the Mau meetings —they may have got that from the Mau meetings. Do you think that the Samoans should have the power of making laws for the Samoans ? —No. Who should make the laws for the Samoans ? —The Legislative Council with the Native representation on it. To what extent do you think there should be Native representation ?—Three Natives. In addition to the present members ? —Yes, three Natives in addition to the present members. So that those members of the Legislative Council could prevent any legislation from being passed ? —That would be a matter for the Legislative Council. Is that your opinion ] —Yes. Is that the opinion of the Mau too I—l do not know. Do you know from your actual knowledge, so far as your district is concerned, that the Mau has refused, generally speaking, to attend the malaga of the Administrator ?—Yes. Judge MacCormick.] Is it your opinion that the chiefs and elders sitting here this morning will agree with you when you say that it is a good thing to curtail expenditure on the roads ?—There is no necessity to stop the improvement on the roads entirely, but money set aside for that purpose could be used. I did not ask whether it should be stopped : what I asked you to explain was whether you thought the chiefs and elders would agree with you with respect to your idea of curtailing the work ? —I do not know what their opinions are.

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