A. —4b.

■Judge MacCormich : I was leading up to another point, but there is no objection to your asking if another person has been appointed matai. Mr. Slipper.] Has anybody else been appointed matai in your place I—Nobody1—Nobody in our family at Faleapuna. I have taken my wife and children away to Aleipata. This matai title applies only to the family themselves ? —Yes. Judge MacCormich : That removes any doubt in our minds. Mr. Baxter.] The Commissioners have heard mention of the suppression of the " fine mat " custom : do you wish to say anything about that or not ? —Yes, there should be no law prohibiting the custom of " fine mats." Why not I—By doing so it has taken away one of the important customs of this country. Why is the taking away of an important custom a bad thing I —There is then no meeting of the chiefs to have a presentation of " fine mats " on the occasion of the death of a chief. You are telling us what it is, but you are not telling us why it is a bad thing to stop an old custom ? —It is an important custom because it shows the importance of a chief—especially of the one who dies. Is that all you wish to say about the " fine mats " ? —Yes. We have also heard about the medical levy : is there anything you wish to say about that ? —Yes, I think that there should be no medical tax. Why not ? —The poll-tax is quite sufficient. Which poll-tax do you mean —the old one or the new one ?—As in former times. Anything further under the medical head ? —I think that the reason why it is necessary to have a medical-tax is because there is a large number of people employed on the medical staff. That is all. Well, we come to the proposed scheme for the subdivision of lands : do you wish to say anything about that ?—Yes, that new law will cause trouble amongst the Samoans. Why will it cause trouble ? —The matai and the members of his family will be on bad terms. Why ?—Because when that is done the matai will have no control or authority over the members of his family. Apart from your troubles (which you have told us already) regarding the Faipule, is there any other specific complaint besides what you have already mentioned ? —Yes. I disagree with the manner in which the Faipule spoke in New Zealand about their being representatives of the people. Why do you disagree with that ?—They are not representatives of the districts. How is that ?—Because they are not nominated or selected by the districts or district which they are supposed to represent. Some districts have had a say in the matter, have they not ?—I do not know of any Faipule appointed in that manner. Perhaps it is quite recent. Is there anything further as to why you object to their claiming to be representatives ?—The Administrator has given them too much power and authority, which they have misused. Can you give us any example of the misuse of this authority ? —lf it was not for that I would not have been banished in the way I have been. That is one example. Is there any other example ? —There will be other Faleapuna people coming. I do not wish to speak about Faleapuna affairs now, as there will be Faleapuna people here to give evidence, and they will no doubt speak about what their Faipule has done. Ido not wish you to speak for Faleapuna people—speak for yourself. Is there any other example about which you know ? —No, only that affair about myself. Do you remember the first meeting in the Market Hall here at the end of last year I—No.1 —No. With regard to all these grievances you are talking about —medical-tax, &c.—how long have you felt sore about them ?—Since the commencement of each one of them. You mean, since the date of these laws being made you have had grievances ?—Yes. Mr. Meredith.'] Are you a member of the Mau Yes. How long have you been a member I—l joined the Mau when I came to Apia at the time of the Hon. Minister's visit. You mean in June ? —Yes. Was the Mau in existence before the public meetings held in Apia ? —I do not know. Have you attended any fonos of the Mau ? —Yes. Have those fonos been addressed by any Europeans ?—No. Not the fonos you have been at ? —No, at none of those I have attended. Have you discussed your troubles with Mr. Nelson ? —No. Not at any time ? —No. Did you never tell Mr. Nelson about what happened before the Faipule in respect to these charges ?—No. You are sure about that ?—Yes. Do you understand the object of the Mau to be that Samoa should be governed bv the Samoans ? —That has been expressed. I have also expressed it myself at the meetings of just Samoan members of the Mau. And do you understand that to be the feeling of the other Natives who are members of the Mau ? —ln my opinion they are all of the same opinion. Do they all merely wish New Zealand to protect Samoa from attacks by other nations ?— Yes. I wish it to be spoken of as being under the British flag. Is that all you wish it to be under the British flag for ? —Yes. Do you understand the Mau to wish the removal of the present Administrator ?—ln my opinion it is the wish of the Mau that he should be removed. Have you heard the opinion expressed by the other members of the Mau here that that was not the idea of the Mau ? —No, I did not hear the evidence of the others,

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