A.—4b.

So they took it first and asked afterwards ?—That is against the law. Mr. Meredith.] Do not four other Faipules claim that land 1 —No; three—Atoa, Sapolu, and So'oalo. There were only three claims. What about your family I—-I1 —-I stand in with So'oalo. With regard to that charge of investigating titles—-at least, of opening jjecugrees —-was not the request for your being removed made by the chiefs of Mulifanua ?—The Mukfanua people did not complain about this matter. I would like to give further explanation. Please read this over and tell us what it means [" Complaints by Chiefs of Mulifanua " was read to the witness by the interpreter] ? —I would like to point out that this is not signed by anybody. Please turn over to the next page. [Copy put in and marked Exhibit No. 26.] You know them all: are they not people of Mulifanua ? —They are Mulifanua people. Are they not some of them chiefs and leading men of Mulifanua ? —Yes; but I am of a higher rank than any of them. lam the highest chief there. Has the Faipule signed them ? —I did not hear the name of the Faipule read out. And is the translation of that a complaint by those men of your opening up the pedigrees ? — I had reason to open some of the pedigrees. One is that of Tauti, who is continually having trouble with me and causing trouble in the village. When you were called before Mr. McCarthy did you tell Mr. McCarthy your explanation I—Yes, I gave a full and thorough explanation. Did you ask questions of the other witnesses that were called ? —Yes. And was a man named Fa'ateaina there ? —Yes, he is my orator ; I am the chief and he is the orator. And did you give your explanation to Mr. McCarthy ? —-Yes. Mr. McCarthy himself will give evidence on that. Did you hear the other men give evidence before Mr. McCarthy : Yes or No ? —Yes. Were you before this also convicted of assaulting a girl named Fa'alavea ? —That girl is my niece. That is not what I asked you. Were you convicted of assault on Fa'alavea : Yes or No 1— I was banished by the Judge by his own will because I did not admit the offence. I denied the evidence right along. The Chairman.] What date was this charge ? —l4th November, 1924. Witness (continuing): I handcuffed this girl because she ran away with another man. That is why I was banished. Mr. Meredith.] Was that in November of the year 1924 ?—-I cannot remember ; 1 did not note it down on paper. Was it before you were in trouble about speaking of opening the pedigrees ? —I cannot remember. Europeans write these things down, but Samoans do not. As soon as they say a thing they forget all about it. Mr. Slipper.] Did you have any witnesses yourself at Mulinu'u ? —Yes. You say that you had occasion to open up those pedigrees : are pedigrees ever opened under any circumstances ? —-Yes. 1 opened the pedigree of Tauti because I had a complaint before Mr. McCarthy in reference to this Native's title, and I had a complaint before the Land and Titles Commission over this title. Was that the only pedigree you opened up ? —I opened the pedigree because I wanted to know exactly how I stood, because in the Samoan custom one person does not interfere with another person's affairs. That is the reason why I had to open Tauti's pedigree, as I explained to Mr. McCarthy, because he broke the peace of the village. Do you admit, as a general thing, pedigrees should not be opened ?—-Yes, if there is no proper reason for it. Can you, as a high chief, tell us if there was any proper reason for what you did ?■—Yes. With regard to this girl —this niece of yours —how old was she at the time the assault took place 1 —Twenty-two years at the time. Was she under your control ?—Yes. Mr. Baxter.] You have spoken about the cancellation of the " fine mat " ceremony, and we do not want to hear what you have already said again. Why did you take the mats to Fagamalo when you knew that there was such a law in existence I—That1 —That is not an offence under the conditions of the tulafono (law). The tulafono was that there were to be no " fine mats " presented at the death ceremonies ; but this was a malaga for the payment of a debt, which was not covered by the Ordinance. Judge MacCormiok.] What do you mean by " debt " ?—Pigs which our village got from that district for our use. Pigs from the high chief of that district, and we paid for them in " fine mats." Mr. Baxter.] Had you received the pigs at the time and owed the money, or were you going across to buy the pigs ?—We had the pigs first and paid for them afterwards. Judge MacCormick.] Were they paid for : are these not gifts between the community ?—No ; this was no presentation, and it was ordered that all debts were to be paid by the 31st December. Who ordered that ? —The Administrator and the Faipule. The Chairman: This is an entirely different matter from the question of banishments. The two matters are entirely different. Mr. Baxter: Yes, sir. We are handling them separately. The Chairman: If there is a law in existence a Government official must obey it whether he thinks it right or wrong. If he does not obey it, or if he does not wish to obey it, he must resign. Mr. Baxter: Yes, sir; but that is not a remedy. Judge MacCormick: But he is not punished in any way, except by dismissal.

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