16 —A. 48.

A. —4b.

Nor is the making of presents of " fine mats " forbidden I—lt is not forbidden. And it is only on a malaga that the presentation of " fine mats " is forbidden ? —No " fine mats " are allowed to be presented on a Malaga or at death ceremonies, and " fine mats " are not allowed to be given to builders for building houses or boats. On the malaga which you were in trouble about, how many were associated with that malaga ? — Two fautasis, each holding about sixty or eighty people together. How long did they stay ? —I am not quite sure —three or four days ; under a week. Did the people in that district ask for you to go before you left ? —No. There was only an order sent to me by the Resident Commissioner. When you made the statement about the medical doctors, was that made from your own knowledge or from what you have been told ?—I have seen it myself. Then, you were not told what you have said by anybody ? —No, it was my opinion. Did Mr. Williams not tell you : have you heard what Mr. Williams said?— No. Or seen what Mr. Williams has written ? —No. You did not know that Mr. Williams had said anything like that ? —No. I have not seen the statement made by Mr. Williams. He is a white man and not a Samoan. How many fonos did you attend after the first meeting called by the European committee ? — I went to two meetings at the Market Hall which were brought about by the Native fonos. Did you hear any European address those fonos—that is, Native fonos ? —Yes. Who were the Europeans who addressed the fonos ?—I do not know the names ; I only heard them speak. Do you know Mr. Gurr ? —Yes. Did he speak at any of them ? —No. Do you know Mr. Williams ?• —Yes. Do you know Mr. Nelson I—Yes.1 —Yes. Did he speak at any of them ?• —Yes, at several of them ; and he was the only one who spoke. Did he speak on every occasion ?—That was the only time I saw him at the meeting. Which one was that ? —The first meeting at the Market Hall. Did you not see Mr. Nelson at any meeting but the first meeting at the Market Hall ?—lt was the only meeting T heard him speak at. Did he not speak at the second public meeting I—At the second meeting Mr. Nelson read a letter from General Richardson. He did not say anything more I—l left the Samoans to decide whether to continue the meeting or not. Did Mr. Nelson make any other speech but that ? —I left early. Did you not hear anything more after Mr. Nelson mentioned about continuing the meeting ? — T was in agreement with continuing the meeting, but at that time I went away. Did you sign the petition to the New Zealand Government on the 11th March, 1927 ? —lf my name is there I signed it. This is the petition [handed to witness] ? —Yes, my name is there. Where did you sign that petition ? —At Mulivai, in Apia. Were there other people present ? —No members of the Mau present. Were there any Europeans present ? —No. Was Mr. Nelson present ?—Yes. Do you know anything about the £100,000 loan from New Zealand ?—I only heard that there was a loan from the New Zealand Government to the Samoan Government, but I cannot say the amount, and I cannot say anything about it, since I do not know for sure. Did the Mau people who signed the petition wish the Government of Samoa taken a.wav from New Zealand ? —I would like to give a short explanation before I answer the question. The Chairman.] Will you please answer the question first and then give your explanation afterwards ? —lf the New Zealand Government wish to give up the government of the country it could do so, because we are not satisfied with the New Zealand Government. Do you wish the government of Samoa to be taken away from New Zealand ?—Yes ; we want the Samoans, and the Samoans only. And for the Samoans to say what taxes they should pay ? —Yes. And to say how the taxes collected should be spent ? —We know quite well how to do these things. If we make a mess of it, it is our own fault. Do you know the details of the mandate ?—The mandate said that the island would be governed peacefully, and not to break the peace. Did the European members of the Citizens Committee know of the views of the Natives belonging to the Mau ? —I do not know, because they are quite distinct from us. We have our own Samoan affairs. Whom did the Natives look upon as the head of the Mau movement ? —One chief cannot be head of another chief ; they are all the same. How many Samoan chiefs are there in this Mau movement ? —There are about one hundred. Do you know that there is no law which makes the Native subdivide their land ?—There is an order issued by the Administrator, and that is a law. Do you think that makes it compulsory for them to cut up their land if they are told ? —We would not abide by any instructions of that nature, because by looking into the matter we find that there is no law. Have you looked into it ? —The Faipules are treating it as a law nowadays.

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