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should be made a penal offence for any person to coerce or cajole any worker to restrict his output." Well, I want to ask, what about employers who restrict their output to keep up prices, and combinations of employers who subsidize firms to keep their plants idle for the same purpose ? Mr. Baldwin : I want to ask a question relative to the second-last paragraph on page 140. The fact is there emphasized by Mr. Turner that he thinks that if the whole of the primary-produce workers were relieved from the operation of the law, that would probably solve the whole difficulty. He points out in that paragraph that the pastoral industries alone provide practically 100 per cent, of our exports. Rut the pastoral section of the primary producers do not come under any burden or conditions that apply to workers, because there are only two sections of their employees that come under any awards of the Court, the shearers and the musterers. Professor Murphy : And the freezing-workers. Mr. Baldwin : That is indirect. I wish to ask Mr. Turner whether he would be satisfied if the primary-producing workers were exempted from the provisions of the law. Mr. Bloodworth : I desire to ask Mr. Turner whether the answers given to the questions on page 1, submitted by the Chambers of Commerce, have been weighed according to their importance ; if not, of what value are the answers ? I take it that the circulars were sent to thousands of employers : they may have been sent to the Union Steamship Co., which employs thousands of men, and they may have been sent to an employer who employs only one man. Then the Chamber of Commerce claims —1 think, correctly —that their point of view represents a sort of average of the views of the parties. They state definitely that they do not want to see any lowering of the standard of living in this Dominion. In view of the statements made on behalf of the Chambers of Commerce, and of the fact that the arbitration system has resulted in establishing a rough system of a standard minimum wage, are the Chambers of Commerce in favour of the establishment of a standard minimum wage ? If they are in favour, what steps do they recommend in that direction ? If they are not in favour of a standard minimum wage being fixed, have the Chambers of Commerce considered what would be the effect on the trade of the Dominion if the present minimum-wage system were abolished and no alternative method of fixing a minimum wage were agreed upon ? The result would be 1 a general lowering of wages without any increase in production, and there would be a consequent reduction in the purchasingpower of the workers, who in a large measure are the customers of the members of the Chambers of Commerce throughout the Dominion. If the Chambers of Commerce are not now in favour of fixing a standard minimum wage, will the Chambers continue to be in favour of fixed, retail prices for proprietary articles, which are an important factor in the workers' cost of living ? How do the Chambers of Commerce expect the workers to agree to any system of piecework or payment by results unless they are in favour of fixing a standard minimum wage below which payment by results cannot operate ? Have the Chambers of Commerce considered what would be the result to a large portion of their members of a fall in wages to workmen, with its consequent reduction in purchasing-power ? Mr. Johns: With regard to the last portion of Mr. Turner's statement, it seems that what we want is a relaxation of the system which limits production. My question is, would he be in favour of increasing the work or the output of the dairy factories of this Dominion 1 The workers in those factories for the last twelve years have been covered by Arbitration Court awards, and I do not think there is any country in the world where the output can equal the output per unit of those factory workers. I would like to quote from the New Zealand Dairy-produce Exporter of the 26th March, 1927, which says, " During the visit of the Duke and Duchess of York to New Zealand the Waharoa Butter-factory was inspected by their Royal Highnesses. The packing of butter both in bulk and in pats was keenly watched, and favourable comment was passed on the dexterity of the men employed in this particular branch. Amazement was expressed at the speed displayed by the men in wrapping the pound pats. The Duchess wished to know how many hands were employed in the factory, and both she and the Duke were astonished to learn that such an output could be controlled by so small a staff. This fact evidently impressed the Duke, because on learning that the estimated output for this season would be 3,200 tons he again commented on the efficiency of the organization." Further on we find this published in the Auckland Star under the heading " The Last Word in Dairy Efficiency : On Tuesday the Waharoa Rutter-factory broke its own record for the greatest one-day output of butter, which it is claimed is a world's record." There are about thirty-one men employed in that factory. The extract continues : "On the day mentioned no less than eighteen churns of butter were put through in less than nine hours, the result of this being 21 tons 6 cwt., or 47,712 lb. of butter." This output was a triumph of efficiency, was a world's record output, and was brought about under the Arbitration Court system. If we get rid of that system and outlaw those works and workers, how are we going to get on ? We are beating the world now, Surely we are not going to try and beat the angels in Heaven ? That is the last word in dairy efficiency. Mr. Roberts: On page 141 of the paper it is pointed out that 45 per cent, of the total population are breadwinners and 55 per cent, dependants. I know how these figures are arrived at, and in all our investigations we find, that the Government Statistician really is a statistical matchmaker. He provides every man who has not a wife with a wife, and then with a child or two, or with one-fifth of a child, or something of that kind. What we want is the average number of children per married male worker working in an industry covered by an award of the Court. Mr. Turner will no doubt admit that some men have more than two children, and when the Court makes an award is it right to ask what is the man's value going to be if he has four children ; or is he, like the dog-fancier, going to keep the best two and drown the others ? The fact seems to have escaped the investigation of the Canterbury Chamber of Commerce regarding the wages position, as to what percentage of the 45 per cent, of the breadwinners are actually

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