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total population represents the adult workers, male and female. It is estimated that the unemployed in the United States numbers 4,000,000, though I have seen it stated as high as 8,000,000 ; but taking it at 4,000,000 you get the proportion of unemployed to adult workers, male and female, as one in 8-5. In England, with a population of 45,000,000, the number of workers would be 13,125,000, and the number of unemployed is about 1,100,000, which gives a proportion of 1 unemployed in 11-94 workers —say, 1 in 12. So that in New Zealand the proportion of unemployed to workers is 1 in 43-7 ; in the United States, lin 8-5 ; and in England, lin 12. So that you see that the problem of unemployment in New Zealand —and naturally you would expect it in a young country like New Zealand —is not nearly so serious as in the Old Country and in a prosperous country like the United States of America. That is why the delegates on this side of the Conference are anxious, before supporting the adoption of any permanent remedy, to be absolutely sure of the dimensions of the unemployment, the causes of it, and the best remedies to rectify the position. It is not from any want of sympathy that we have hesitated to support the adoption of the unemployment-insurance scheme, because I think the members of the special sub-committee will bear me out when I say that the members from this side showed a quite sympathetic appreciation of the position. I apologize for taking up so much of the time of the Conference. Mr. Turner : I would like to take the opportunity of referring briefly to one or two remarks made by Mr. Revell in connection with the freezing industry. I would like to say that I agree with almost everything he said. Further, the employers in the freezing industry, as well as the farmers who are behind them, do realize that the casual and seasonal nature of the industry presents one of the most radical problems which underlie the question of unemployment; there is no doubt about that. But I want to suggest that possibly the manner in which Mr. Revell made his remarks may lead us to think that the amount of unemployment among the men engaged in the freezing industry is more than it really is. I submit that it is not quite an accurate statement —and Ido not think that Mr. Revell meant it to be taken as such —that the average man in the freezing industry gets only twenty-seven weeks' work in the year. A very large proportion of the men engaged in that industry are employed in other seasonal work when the freezing-works are not running. For instance, we know that a large proportion of the slaughtermen are engaged shearing when the freezing-works are not running, and also a large number of them are employed on harvesting-work. Then, we know that numbers of them work in Australia during the killing season there, which does not overlap the season here. Mr. Jessep has just reminded me that some years ago the farmers on the East Coast, before the end of the killing season, were urging the freezing companies to get rid of their employees in order that they might secure labour, which they might not otherwise get, for bushfelling and clearing. Ido not want the suggestion to go out that twenty-seven weeks' work in a year represents the total amount of work that the average freezing-works employee gets. But we do appreciate the fact that the seasonal nature of our work is one of the most radical problems connected with unemployment. We submit that the proposals put forward in these recommendations do represent a practical method for meeting the difficulty. Mr. Roberts : I think it is inadvisable to start quoting figures in regard to freezing-workers' employment, or the total unemployment in New Zealand as compared with that in other countries. We have recommended that a committee be set up to go into that matter, and the place for those figures to be considered is before that committee. If we indulge in quotations from the Year-books of other countries we will be applying a rule for that committee which should not be set down by this Conference. What lam concerned about is that the recommendations submitted by the sub-com-mittee on the question of unemployment should receive that sympathetic treatment and consideration from the Government which their importance demands, that the committee to be appointed to go into this matter will investigate it fully, and that the Government will act upon its report. If we have only a periodical unemployment trouble in New Zealand there is no reason in the world why we should not have a scheme to meet that class of unemployment. If our unemployment is also seasonal, a scheme can be brought down to meet seasonal and periodic unemployment. If it is chronic, as has been suggested by Professor Tocker, then that aspect of the matter should be dealt with also. Your sub-committee, in dealing with this question, considered every phase of it. As a matter of fact, there were figures quoted by the yard, but we could not come to any agreement as to whether these figures were correct or not. We recognized that unemployment was acute, and that it was desirable to have an investigation made and to have an immediate remedy for unemployment. That is as far as we can sensibly go without investigation. lam concerned more about the immediate relief of the position to-day than anything else, because there is an acute problem. lam certain that if we had a recommendation from those who were able to judge the unemployment from the state of industry in the country, from the amount of the unemployment and the hardship which the workers undergo— if that recommendation were available I am sure that lasting benefit would result. I will conclude by saying that if there is any gentleman here who can add anything that would be helpful to the committee which will be set up to investigate this matter, or useful to the Statistical Department, that is what is desired. Every member of the sub-committee realized that this is not the be-all and end-all of the matter. We have gone so far as we could go with the material and information at our disposal, and we trust that the Government will act upon our recommendations. Mr. Barber : I quite agree with the sentiments expressed by Mr. Roberts, that this is not the proper place to formulate details for remedying the problem of unemployment. If the committee is set up, it will be the proper body to consider the matter. During this discussion we have heard so much to the effect that the primary industries are the salvation of this country that I think it is only fair that the ability of the secondary industries in a large measure to remedy the unemployment should be voiced. To my mind, the very small percentage of unemployment existing in this country, as mentioned by the Hon. Mr. Weston, can be absorbed over and over again by the secondary

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