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take it from the attitude of members on this side on that question that we are less sympathetic than themselves with the man who for any reason whatever is unemployed. We are not less sympathetic, but we do think that there is a very distinct danger in pronouncing the patient incurable and providing for his maintenance before we have attempted a cure. And it seems to me incredible that at this time in New Zealand's history we can find no better remedy than those which have been found necessary in old and thickly-settled countries. They have very different problems from those we have ; and for that reason alone, and not because of any want of sympathy with the man who for any reason is out of employment, we look with a great deal of fear —I personally do —on practically pronouncing that unemployment is going to be, as Professor Murphy, I think, pointed out, a chronic state and we must therefore provide a permanent remedy for a disease which, I am sure, we all hope we will be able to cure. lam sure that our labour friends will agree that if in any ordinary economic way we can absorb all the people in New Zealand in ordinary employment, without having to provide relief works or anything of that sort, it is far better for us to concentrate upon those measures which will do that before practically admitting that this evil will always recur. Ido not want to tread on dangerous ground and upset my friend Mr. Barber or anybody else, but we cannot get away from the facts that Mr. Revell has pointed out, that we have been faced with a different position during the past two or three years. As Mr. Turner has stated, it was only a few years ago that we were waiting for men in big areas of New Zealand when the season closed. The works were waiting for them to be relieved of their contracts to commence their work. But now we have a big percentage of unemployed, and we have got to go back and find the causes that are preventing the employment of these men. If this committee concentrates mainly on the causes, with all the data before it, we will be on the right lines for solving the problem ; and surely it should not be insoluble for a young country like this. I do not want to go into the question from a primary versus secondary industries point of view ; but I think you all agree that unless the primary industries are flourishing the others must be in a bad way, and I think it wisest to concentrate upon the industry which, if flourishing, means prosperity in all the secondary industries also. The sub-committee has very wisely recommended that education should be directed towards that end. But it is useless doing that unless the whole trend of legislation in the country is so directed as to make the channels attractive and encourage young men to go on the land. You are not going to get boys into an industry that is unattractive, and I regard the primary industries to-day as least attractive from an investment point of view of any in the Dominion. That is a very serious evil that we must concentrate upon the solution of, or all our legislation will be of no avail. Mr. Baldwin : Sir, previous speakers have emphasized the point that we should not institute an unemployment-insurance scheme because, as they state, the system has been tried in other countries and proved a failure. But the fact remains that it has been found necessary not only to institute but to retain such schemes in older countries. It is, however, a much smaller scheme that is asked for in this country as compared with that in operation at Home, for the reason that it is a well-known fact that in England to-day there are hundreds and thousands of workers under the age of thirty years, men and women, who do not know what it is to have done a day's work, owing to the fact that they were in a blind alley when the dole came into their hands, and they have been quite exist and carry on in the state they have been forced into by economic pressure and want of employment. We are all aware that the disturbance in the manufacturing sections of Britain caused a great deal of unemployment after the unheaval; but that does not alter the fact that they should be engaged in these manufacturing industries and competing with the manufacturing industries of other countries whom we say that we should deal with. We ask, and it is a recommendation in the subcommittee's report, that the money should be paid out for useful work of a productive nature. We do not want a dole. The remark was made by my friend across the way that there is a lot of land to be obtained round Rotorua, on the gumfields, and in other places. But what is it worth in its present state ? It is worth nothing ; but if we had an insurance scheme of the class and the calibre desired on this side there would be a fund accruing from it whereby the waste lands of this country could be put into such a state that there would be an inducement for those whom we have recommended should be educated for agricultural and pastoral pursuits to take up this land and become settlers. There would then be not only increased production, but some assurance to the rising generation that they would not have to face that spectre of unemployment which has to be faced by their parents to-day. As to the point of view about the figures, Ido not want to quote figures at all; but, talking'of the l-in-43 argument, are we going to bring about and maintain as evil a condition in this respect in this country as now obtains in others, or are we going to try to devise some remedy to prevent such a state of affairs ? I take it we are going to try to devise some remedy, and that certainly is the job of that committee. So that there is not the slightest doubt that if something were done in this Dominion on sound and sane lines there would be sufficient avenues for those who are now engaged in seasonal occupations for a certain part of the time to obtain full employment all the time. A reference was made to the slaughtermen in the freezing-works coming out, of the sheds and going into rural fields of occupation, and there is a small percentage in that connection, but nothing like the proportion suggested. They get nothing without going into the cities at the present time, as the centres are the places where the engagements are usually made, and therefore when the men finish on this particular job they go into the cities where the employers' agents have their offices in order to try and find employment. Referring again to the remarks of another speaker respecting the increased taxes, I read that report from the Canterbury Chamber of Commerce, pointing out that, as far as that matter was concerned, the cost would be very heavy in that connection. Unless there were some very drastic alterations made in that particular direction, I do not know that the secondary industries would absorb all of those we desire to have settled on the land with a view to bringing about greater production. We claim that if such a scheme were brought down there is not the slightest doubt thereTwould'be the means provided not only to utilize the lands that are now inaccessible, not only would many of the

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