[M. s. galvin.

I.—2A.

86

13. You spoke of the difficulty in getting water, but you will admit that it inay be procured by boring ?-<-I will not admit that it will be procured by boring, but I will not deny that it may ; but, judging by the formation of the country and the altitude, 1 think it is unlikely that you will get water there. The only way to determine it is by setting up a boring plant and testing the country there. But there is no surface water available. There is a run of 10,000 acres with not a drop of surface water on it. I have not found a drop of surface water there. 14. Do you know conditions in Australia ? —No, my experience is confined to New Zealand. 15. But we understand that they have a rainfall in that district of 45 in. a year ? —I think the rainfall round about there is 63 in. 16. Then it is only a case of reserving it ?—I do not think you could reserve enough for that country. It would be difficult to water it. 17. You seem to lay great stress on the mere fact that one gentleman bought 53,000 acres and sold 43,000 acres at an enhanced value. Ido not suppose you blame that man ? —No, I would do the same thing myself, but I wanted to stress the point that he brought in only 1,700 acres in all that time. 18. What would influence a buyer to give this gentleman sufficient for him to make a profit on Ms original purchase price ? —Well, of course, the majority of that land was purchased for afforestation purposes by afforestation companies. 19. It was sold for afforestation purposes more than for agricultural purposes ?—That is so — and that is similar to the Taupo land. 20. Would you say that the price paid for it was a fictitious value ? —For farming purposes the unimproved value of that land is nil. As a matter of fact, for farming purposes it is a liability ; but for afforestation purposes it is a different matter. 21. Would you consider that the price paid Mr. Vaile for afforestation purposes was fictitious ? —I know nothing about the prospects of the land for afforestation purposes. 22. You say that the prospects from a farming point of view are absolutely nil I—Yes,1 —Yes, if it is unimproved. 23. Would you consider it nil for afforestation purposes ?—Since these people, after buying the land for £1 an acre, again sold it for £1 15s. an acre —that shows what the value of that land is for afforestation purposes. 24. What would you consider a fair upset value of this land to-day — for a million acres, for afforestation or for farming purposes ? —I cannot say what the value of it is for afforestation purposes, but for farming it would be only after long years that it could be of any great value. 25. Do you know the South Island at all I—No,1 —No, very little. 26. Would you be surprised if I told you that there were properties in the South Island which twenty-eight years ago were considered worth nil from an agricultural point of view ?—No. 27. Would you be surprised if I showed you some of that land which you could not now buy under £30 an acre ? —I admit that there are those possibilities. But I say that those twenty-eight years have to pass, and poineers have to endure hardships on that land, and that therefore you cannot measure the cost of bringing the country in by pounds shillings and pence. 28. You know that the Government has an idea of spending £5,000,000 on developing the undeveloped lands : would this land at Taupo do for that purpose ?—I say that a lot of that land, especially in the Atiamuri Valley, has definite prospects of successful development, but my main point is that this country is still in the experimental stage, and I think that the experiment should be undertaken by the State and not by the individual. 29. You have quoted an individual who has developed 1,700 acres of this land : would you call him a pioneer ? —You are asking me a question, and I have no desire to hurt any man's feelings by my answer, but I have my own opinion. As far as the improvements done there are concerned, I consider that mainly those improvements are window-dressing to sell the rest of the land. 30. And therefore you believe that the whole of the country, with the expenditure of public money, should be window-dressed ? —There is a certain value in that land to-day with the improvements —but the cost of those improvements and experiments should not be borne by the individual. I say that probably some of that country can be brought in, but we have no evidence to show that the country is past the experimental stage. 31. Do you say you have no evidence that it can be developed—with the evidence of what has been done on 1,700 acres before you ?—To answer that question you would want to know the cost of bringing it in, and the return that has been taken from it. 32. We have had costs and returns from other witnesses ? —About bringing it in ? I say that a lot of the country there cannot be brought in—it is impossible. 33. How many acres do you consider can be brought in ? —As it stands to-day, there are 100,000 acres in that area which could be worked with some success, and the best of the country lies down near the Horahora Range —that is all nice easy country. 34. Are you giving evidence as a departmental officer at the present time ?—Well, I do not know. As a matter of fact, I do not know who called me. The Chairman : Yes, Mr. Galvin is a departmental officer. The Department was asked to send a representative, and it sent Mr. Galvin to give evidence to the Committee. 35. Mr. Kyle.] You are giving evidence on behalf of the Lands Department as a Fields Inspector ? —-Yes, and as the man who has been dealing with this land for the last two years and a half. 36. Have you reported on this country ?—Yes. 37. When was the last occasion on which you reported on it ?—I have reported several times on it. The last date was about the middle or end of November, 1928—that was on the Taupo Settlement. On the 26th September, 1928, I reported on the Rotomahana-Parekaranga.