A. H. COCKAYNE.]

I.—2A.

117

20. Why by pipes ?—The nature of the ground, in my opinion, is not particularly suitable for the conveyance of water from one point to another. 21. Do you mean it is too porous ? —Yes, it is rather porous. 22. You know that pumice country cakes up hard and becomes solid after water has run on it for a considerable time ?—I think it takes a good while. I only wish to stress the importance of knowing all about the watering position. 23. Do you suggest that there should be experiments or prospecting for water, conducted by the Government, before it is decided to make any settlement there at all ?—Yes, certainly. 24. Do you think it would be a good stroke of business for the Government to experiment on 10,000 acres of the best pumice country %—Yes ; but I would not use the word " experiment " as being applied to the finding out of the scientific methods to be employed. I would view the matter as an experiment of group settlement from the individual and social aspect more than from the farming aspect. 25. Carrying it along the lines of the system that has been discussed ?—Somewhat on that style. 26. Mr. Jenkins.] Do you say that 150 acres is an ideal farm ? You are probably aware that the subdivisions there ran up to 700 acres ? —Yes. 27. You say that you have nothing to do with that ?- —To what are you referring ? 28. Reporoa ? —lt does not matter whether these subdivisions are at Reporoa or elsewhere ; it is obvious that where there has been a 700-acre subdivision the area offers serious drawbacks to smaller subdivision. 29. On the east side of Reporoa there are four unallotted areas of 700 acres I—l do not know them, but I suggest that if one went on to them he would walk off rapidly. 30. You are aware of what is done in Holland in bringing sand into a state of cultivation by growing lupins, and that the same result is obtained in other countries by means of afforestation : do you think that that end could be achieved in this area, and humus and soil created by growing vegetation, trees, or plants ?—A forest covering the whole of the pumice country would make it very much easier to develop into grass than it is at the present time : that is clear. 31. That would take some time ? —I referred to a forest extending over the range of life of a forest. It would be well beyond my time. But there is no doubt also that a development of what is termed green-manuring would tend to improve the character of the soil, but the expenses would be too great. 32. Mr. Lye.] You appreciate the fact that this Committee is seeking absolutely reliable information, and wishes to get as much as possible regarding the prospects of settlement of this country : do you seriously consider that 150 acres of the average pumice country —not special pockets and swamps — would carry fifty dairy cows ? —No, not on the average ; it would have to be selected pumice country. The average pumice land, if an excessive expenditure were applied to it, might be brought up to that standard, but it would not be payable. 33. Is there much of that land that can be described as capable of carrying fifty cows on 150 acres ? —I could not answer that from actual definite experience, taking the whole area, but I should say that the actual area capable of being brought up to that standard, with only a moderate loss on the breaking of it in, would be quite small. 34. To bring the land to a state of cultivation so that 150 acres of the best of it would carry fifty dairy cows, what period of time would be needed for the breaking-in process ? —lt might be possible to get quite a large number of cows on to that ground at an early stage, but if that were done, almost certainly you would have to reduce your number very considerably during the pretty long period that elapses between what one might term the first flush of clover-growth and the final development of satisfactory permanent pasture. The final development of satisfactory permanent pasture, which is a permanent asset to the country, would, in my opinion, be achieved in a period varying from six to ten years. 35. Do you agree with the statement that to bring that land into fair cultivation it would take at least twelve years for the best of it—that is to say, to bring it to a state of cultivation where dairy cows could be pastured and would give an economic return for the cost ? —That would be so where the capital expenditure necessary to bring the land to that point could only be obtained over a period of twelve years, but where adequate capital was available, it is probable that such country could be in real fit dairying condition in a slightly less period. 36. Considering the nature and quality of this land, is it possible for a young settler to make good if he is handicapped by a shortage of cash ?—lt would be impossible ; it would be disastrous. 37. Do you believe that in any scheme of settlement the necessary finance should be freely forthcoming from the State, and that the resources of the average settler would not enable him successfully to break the land in ? —The capital of the type of man likely to take up that country would be, in almost every instance, insufficient to enable him to make a job of it. 38. Do you say that that land would be more suitable for syndicates or groups of people with unlimited capital than for the intending settler ? —Yes, if they were prepared to do it. Even though some burned their fingers badly, that would be the best method to adopt. 39. Can you form an opinion as to whether there is any justification at this juncture for the building of the Rotorua-Taupo Railway ? —I should say there is none. 40. Would you say that in the process of settlement of this land good roads would be quite sufficient to meet the needs of the settlers ? —I do consider so. In point of fact, I consider that settlement should precede railway development, and that settlement should be so directed that it is not scattered over an extensive area in pockets here and there. An effort should be made to develop the land which at the present time is not very badly situated from the transport point of view. 41. A statement has been made by a witness that the whole of the pumice lands are subject more or less to cattle-sickness :do you agree with that statement ?—I do not really know. That is a matter