I.—2A.

120

A. H. COCKAYNE.

85. It was the getting over the difficult period that I had in mind. I gather that every settler has a stack of oats, although he may have only 25 acres cleared ; I wondered what was the experience of your Department in regard to the possibilities of grain-growing, or whether you had heard it asserted that the growing of grain weakens the soil and is not desirable ?—One says oShand that it is not desirable, but in many cases it is necessary for the transport animals on the farm. Taking it as a whole, one would deprecate the idea of grain-growing. 86. Do you know whether any water-boring operations or tests have been made ? —I do not know. I understand that at Tokoroa a good deal has been done. The amount of water secured is not very great, but that does not alter the fact that I think the possibilities of water should be investigated. The engineering aspects of water conveyance should also be investigated. 87. You stated that certain areas would pay quite well: can you give us any indication of the areas that would pay quite well ? —No, one could not do that without a very exhaustive survey of the district. One is viewing a particular area at the present time, an area which is represented to a certain extent by the Guthrie Settlement, as high-class pumice country. One also views a certain amount of country at the southern end of Lake Taupo and along its western fringe as being extremely high-class pumice country. For example, portions of Hautu : one views these as well above the average. The Guthrie Settlement area and all that country, which at one time, apparently, was an old lake, in which there are seams of clay running through, would likewise seem to offer economic possibilities if broken in. 88. You stress particularly the period between initial crops of clover and permanent pasture as the most difficult for the settler ? —Yes. 89. What is your experience in regard to bringing these lands into permanent pasture ? By way of illustration, at Hautu Prison Farm, having obtained permanent pasture in clover, they were getting other English grasses into these pastures without wasting the clover pasture, by putting the disks over the land and sowing the grass-seed amongst the clover, thus securing the other English grasses without wasting the clover crop ?—I only know the Hautu experience there. 90. Is it satisfactory or not ?—I would not say that it was entirely satisfactory, but the experience of Hautu would indicate that on certain types of pumice country the effort should be quite against the general impression at the present time, and that you should attempt to get your permanent pasture in to begin with by using good stock consolidation throughout and liberal top-dressing. One has to remember, so far as the majority of the settlement of the pure pumice country is concerned, adequate top-dressing has not been properly done. Even at Hautu the amount of top-dressing has been comparatively nil. I am confident that with a good deal of that country one could secure permanent pasture without having to wait a long period of years for the main constituents to develop, which occurs very frequently in what I call the red-clover flush and the final production of permanent pasture. There is a tendency when it gets from the cocksfoot stage into the Yorkshire-fog stage for it to deviate out into poor dry stock country, whereas with liberal top-dressing there is more a tendency to bring it towards the rye-grass standard. One is therefore inclined to think that with liberal topdressing on the best pumice country there may not be that necessity to plough and replough the ground several times before you get the permanent pasture. It is one of the difficulties that in that pumice country when you get to the stage of having to plough your grass in again you pretty well start at scratch again. 91. I was interested in your remarks regarding fencing : is fencing in that district more expensive than in average country ? —I have not full particulars, but as far as erection of fences is concerned it would not be. 92. Is there any fencing-material to be obtained within reasonable distance ?—I have not got exact particulars at the present time. 93. The Chairman.] From your statement as to the Hautu Prison land I take it that you look upon that as superior to the pumice land between Rotorua and Taupo ? —Yes, although I view what we are terming the upper Atiamuri basin as pretty promising material. 94. But as to the land between Rotorua and Taupo ?—A great deal of it I do not like. 95. You think the Hautu Prison land is of better quality ? —That is my opinion, with the exception of the areas like Reporoa and the swamp country. 96. Considerably better than the average ?—That is my opinion. 97. To be brought in a much shorter time to permanent pasture ? —Yes. One is viewing that that country can probably be broken in faster than any of the other pure pumice land. 98. Any evidence we might obtain from the prison camp relative to the cost of bringing in the land there to permanent pasture ? —ls relevant to the type, but not relevant to the Taupo-Rotorua land. - 99. You told us yesterday that it would cost somewhere between £25 and £30 to fully develop the best pumice land into permanent pasture ? —To make a real dairy-farm, not a " half-pie " one. 100. To-day you told us that a considerable portion of the cost of bringing the land into that state would have to be written off if worked under a Government scheme ? —I am afraid that, just as in the case of the soldier settlements, the demand for revaluation would be so insistent that one would have to recapitalize it considerably lower than it cost. 101. Would it not amount to a repetition of the soldier-settlement revaluations? Would not the country be faced with a similar proposition to that ? —I am rather inclined to say so, but I must put in a proviso. I consider that the development of the better pumice country is a liability which the country as a whole has to face. 102. Hon. Mr. Ransom.] The £30, of course, includes building, fencing, &c. ? —Yes. 103. The Chairman.'] To get at the value of the land, would it not be a fair way to get at it to take the £30 an acre to bring it in, less the amount of the writing-off which would have to take place ? — Yes.