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46. If you had a train service from Taupo to Rotorua would you get them there just as quickly ?— Ido not know about that—l have not the necessary knowledge to answer that question definitely. 47. Upon your reckoning upon the average work done by the prisoners in your camp farm, do you think that the unemployed, if they were employed on the undevloped pumice land there, would do as much work as the prisoners ?—I could not say because I have not been acquainted with the unemployed. Our work has been done under discipline. In the prison camp our policy is simply to keep moving. 48. How many hours a day do they work ?—Bight hours a day from the time they leave camp till they return. 49. In regard to this 400 acres that was given to you to work, was it pleasant work for the men to do, or did they feel they were " up against it " ?—When a man first starts that sort of work he gets tired, but afterwards he is all right, and finds no difficulty with it. 50. What did you have to work the land ? —A three-horse team and a single-furrow plough. 51. And, roughly speaking, you consider that it cost £15 an acre to break it in It would be profitable at £15 an acre. 52. Does that include fencing ?—Yes, everything. 53. And do you think that country lends itself to cattle or sheep ? —I have found it will carry both. I have taken off it bullocks which brought £18 10s. and lambs which weighed 66 lb. 54. Now, let us take on the one hand this land which you say could be brought into a state of productivity for £15 an acre and, say, Pukekohe land of the same producing-value : what would be the value of the Pukekohe land ?—£7o an acre, I would say —the same land in Pukekohe with the same access to it. 55. And £15 an acre spent on this Hautu land would make it equal to Pukekohe land now valued at £70 an acre ?—Yes, from a producing point of view. 56. So that you say that one acre of developed land in the pumice territory is equal to one acre of Pukekohe country at the present tine ? —Yes, I think so. I have just come from Pukekohe now, and the grass at Pukekohe is no better than our grass at Hautu. 57. Is the grass inclined to run out ? —That is a thing we have not yet had time to find out. 58. How long have you been there ?—Seven years. 59. And you use fertilizer every year ? —Every two years. 60. How does it respond to top-dressing ? —Exceedingly well; only one bag to the acre is needed. 61. We have heard a great deal about the climatic conditions there, that they experience intense frost: has that been your experience ? —No, not intense frost. You get five months in the year of winter, but the frosts are not as heavy as in some other parts of New Zealand. 62. Do you know Canterbury ? —Yes, Dumgree I know; it is no worse than that. 63. How many months do you have the grass growing ? —Seven months in the year. 64. In regard to that country of which the Government asked you to take up 400 acres, would you be inclined to take up that class of country and develop it if it were given to you free ? —I would rather get it in the developed state and pay the £15 an acre. 65. Why ? —Then you would get something off it straight away. 66. But with the assistance of the Government to work it up to that £15-an-acre stage of development there is no reason why other men should not go on the land there ? —The right class of man. 67. What sort of man ? —The man who is not afraid of hard work. 68. You think a man would be able to make a home quite comfortably for his wife and family ? — Yes. 69. Mr. Semple.] You went on to this prison farm with how many men ? —Four men. 70. Was the bush then in its native state ? —Absolutely. 71. And you built a camp there ? —We built a shack. 72. And you started with four men ?—Yes. 73. In the wilderness ? —Yes. 74. And you had not had much experience of pumice land ? —I had experimented on it at Waiotapu and Kaingaroa. 75. That would be just patchy experience ?- —Yes. 76. How long have you been there now ? —-This is the seventh year. 77. What is the maximum number of men you have had there with you ?—I could not say offhand, but about thirty. 78. You have not had more than thirty ? —That is so. 79. And you have developed your farm with from four to thirty ? —Yes. 80. How many acres have you brought into cultivation ? —Up till last year there was about 1,260 acres in grass. 81. How many sheep are you running there now ? —one thousand wet ewes. 82. And how many cattle ? —Five hundred head of cows for runner calves. 83. How do your cattle and sheep compare with those taken off other lands ?—They are better than what I have seen on the main line. 84. Have you entered them for any shows ?—No. 85. How do they compare for prices with others ? —We have got record prices for our lambs. 86. The highest price ?—Yes, the highest price—that was last year. 87. That is the result of seven, years' farming ? —Yes. 88. You said you would prefer to take up developed land as a going concern rather than develop it yourself ; you say that because you would get a speedy return ? —Yes, a quicker return.