1.—15.

24

[r. a. weight.

do things that would be unreasonable ? Is it not necessary, therefore, to have some check ? —I admit that; but some Minister might also be unreasonable. lam opposing the Minister having that power. I think it places the Minister in an ambiguous position, and, even if he does the right thing, he will be condemned as having acted on party lines. I do not think that is a power any Minister should be called upon to exercise. Mr. Broadfoot.] You think that the unification and co-ordination should be done by the Board, and not the Minister ? —I did not say that. One local body says you can travel at eight miles an hour, another at ten, another at fifteen, and so on ? —That applies to any by-law affecting motor traffic. Mr. Ansell.] The position is practically at the present time that all these by-laws are subject to the approval of the Minister ?—I do not think it is a power that should be exercised by the Minister. The Chairman.'] What is your next point ? —ln clause 27, which is the last point I desire to draw attention to, it provides that if a local authority fails to comply with regulations as to the .erection of signposts, &c., the Minister may carry out the work at the expense of the local body. Ido not think it right that the local authorities should be compelled to erect these signposts. It seems to me that it is intended to help the Railway Department out of a difficulty. It is the business of the Department in many cases to erect signposts, and not that of the local body. I take exception to that. Mr. Sullivan.] The last witness stated that he would view the Bill much more sympathetically if a provision were incorporated making a license definitely terminable yearly, or he rather conveyed the suggestion that he would accept the Bill if that were done. Would that be your view ? —That would certainly be more preferable, particularly if the local body were the licensing authority. I would certainly agree to that. Hon. Mr. Veitch.] In regard to the unification of by-laws : you say there should be no Ministerial authority over the making of by-laws by local bodies, but you also admit that there must be unification of by-laws, at least up to a point ? —Yes. How do you suggest that unification could be brought about other than by the Minister of Transport'? —I think that probably could be done if the Board, or committee, or whatever else it might be called, gave confidence to all parties that there would be absolute fairness in regard to it. At present there is a feeling, rightly or wrongly, that the present committee is unbalanced, and inclined towards the motorists. There is nothing personal against the gentlemen ; they are all good men, but their interests seem to be all in one direction, and naturally the best and most fair-minded man will lean unconsciously towards his own interests. Ido not see how he, could do anything else. You are suggesting, then, that some special Board should be set up for that purpose ? —Yes. Are you aware that there is power under the Bill to set up such a committee ?—We do not know who will comprise the committee. Hon. Mr. Veitch : No ; but only the parties interested will be represented. The local bodies predominate in the constitution of every local licensing authority proposed in the Bill. Mr. O'Shea : Not in the Appeal Board. Hon. Mr. Veitch.] That, of course, is in a different position. If there is any weakness in the constitution of the Appeal Board, of course we are willing to consider that. I think it might have been assumed that the Act would be administered with a sense of fairness to everybody. (To witness.) You say you prefer that the local bodies should remain as the licensing authority ? —Yes. I think you will recognize that the purpose of setting up a Transport Department is to get co-ordination of the motor-transport services, which is a very necessary thing. lam sure you will recognize that. Can you see any way in which the present licensing authorities might have their licensing authority extended still further ? , For instance, take the City of Wellington : you would not expect it to be given licensing authority for the running of motor services from Wellington to Auckland and New Plymouth ? —No. That is the ground we want to cover. We want to cover more extensive ground, and here we are setting up a licensing authority in which all local bodies are considered within the highways district in appointing members. Would you not be prepared to admit that that is not a case of filching the present powers of local bodies, but merely, in view of the national need to extend the licensing system, an effort to provide a more comprehensive system of licensing ?—Yes, that may be so, and I admit there may be some local bodies that need management, but I think in the main centres there is nothing to condemn in the actions of the local bodies. So far as I can see, they have carried out their duties very well indeed. I think they could be exempt from this Bill. For instance, the matter of issuing drivers' licenses has, I believe, been very well done by the larger bodies, although it may not have been well done by the smaller bodies. I would not dream of contradicting what you say ; I believe the licensing authorities are doing their utmost in the interests of the people ; but this is a case of public necessity and the public safety urgently demanding an extension of the system of licensing far beyond the sphere of the existing licensing authorities, such as the City of Wellington ?—I quite agree ; but might there not be a way of meeting that difficulty without coming into collision with the local bodies to this extent ? Naturally they are jealous of the powers they possess, and feel that this is the thin end of the wedge. Subsequently another Minister will promote something else, and they will lose everything. Take the tramways, for instance : the Public Works Department has hitherto always dealt with them, but now you are putting them under another Board altogether. Hon. Mr. Veitch : No ; that is where you have been misinformed. The powers of local bodies to run tramways are not affected by this Bill at all. That was definitely stated by a witness previously, and the Committee was misled to that extent. The fact is that the placing of the titles of the Acts to be administered by the Transport Department in the Schedule to this Bill does not alter the legal position of those people affected by the Bill; it simply transfers the administration of some law,