1.—15.

46

[j. A. C. ALLUM.

The point I wish to make is that the Government is not responsible for the fact that these people were refused the opportunity of adding their representative to the Board, because the clause lays it down that the Governor-General may by Proclamation, and with the consent of the Board, vary the principle, and order an election of members of the Board necessitated by any such alteration of boundaries ?—That is certainly so ; but the representations were only made to the Minister as to inclusion in the area. I do not know about that, but the Commissioner of Transport informs me that the representations were withdrawn — they were not pursued. You might amend your evidence in that respect ?— Certainly. I speak from memory; I believe they were made, and they were withdrawn. You mentioned there was some dissatisfaction in Auckland owing to these extension buses running, and your Board seeks to overcome that by extending the trams. To what extent will this Bill operate to your detriment after you have established those extended tram services ?—I do not think I said there was dissatisfaction ; but I admitted that in certain cases the present services did not give a complete satisfaction, on account of their being only feeder services, and I added that the Board was remedying that by providing tramways to run right from distant points in order to remove the inconvenience, and the work is being done as quickly as possible. Assuming the Auckland suburbs, will be provided with adequate tram services, where needed, what harm can this Bill do ? In what respect is it going to cripple your services ?—Take the case of the people in the Dominion Road, from whence there is a service right into the city. Two hundred and fifty people in the vicinity think they would like a service, and some operator comes along and says he wants a license to run from one point to another. [Witness indicated positions on map.] We say to him, " All right, you can serve this district, or a portion of it, but you must not pick up and set down on this tram route." His answer is, "If I cannot pick up and set down on the tram route I cannot serve those people, as I must have some of this traffic to enable me to serve the district I am to cater for." Well, we cannot give a man a license on those terms if he is going to take our revenue away. Transport matters are now very difficult throughout the world, and licensing authorities, perhaps from inexperience, might grant licenses to our detriment. The Chairman.] That is pure suggestion only. You think that may be done ? —I say now, as a result of my experience in London, it is done there now. People applying for those services admit that the district they serve will not recoup them, and they desire to maintain the services by taking revenue from the inner, relatively densely populated area, and I cannot but view with alarm any move which would make that position possible here. You suppose another body might do it ?—That is possible, and it weakens our position. Hon. Mr. Veitch.] It seems to me that you should give those people credit for seeking to maintain such a thing as the public interest—as much credit as you would take yourself I—l do not doubt any man's sincerity, but the position I mention might be possible. You might keep in view the feelings of the other fellow ? —I have only one interest —to serve the public ; and at the same time we will deal justly and fairly with private operators, as we have done. There is no accusation of maladministration or of bad faith, and we desire to preserve our position in that respect. Would it be unreasonable to ask you to pay the same compliment to public men elected to a licensing authority ? —I do not want to reflect on any public man, but I say that the Auckland Transport Board came into being as the result of the transport muddle. And you realize you cannot maintain the position I have indicated without reflecting on such a body as a licensing authority which is one elected with a wider scope than some others ? —I cannot maintain that position with respect to any one. What I cannot respect is the inexperience of other people. I say that experienced men will act as a brake on inexperienced men and will not be so readily deceived. You say that a number of Auckland people are fully satisfied with the present position, and submit as proof of the fact also that the Auckland people, by a large majority, established the Transport Board in the first case ? —That is so. And you will admit that when they made that decision they had had no experience of the Board's administration —it had not yet come into existence ? —Of course, that always happens at times of election or of referendum. And you admit also that there is no proof that they are at present satisfied, or dissatisfied, with the administration of the Board, and the only way to test it would be at a general election ? —My answer is that an election will come in due time. In the meanwhile the public are well informed as to the Auckland conditions. They knew the conditions on which the Board was coming into being— it was a nominated Board —and that it had a complete monopoly of transport. They declared by their votes that they wanted it to have a monopoly of transport, and there has been no evidence since its inception that there has been any public dissatisfaction with it. You admit that there has been no significant test of the public confidence, or otherwise, in the administration of the Board since it was first established ? —There has been a complete test in regard to the Board's policy, in that on the Bth May of this year a poll was taken on the proposal to raise a loan of £526,600 to be expended in completing the tramway system, and the loan was carried. I had the honour of submitting this proposal to the various districts, and the unanimity of the support accorded was very gratifying. I do not think that proves anything excepting that the people wanted the trams ?—Well, I am satisfied that it proved the people have complete confidence in the undertaking. The first election is to take place in 1931, but would your Board be prepared to test the position by facing an election in May, 1930 ? —I am not in a position to speak for the Board in a matter of that kind. You could speak for yourself on that point, could you not ?—I would not even speak for myself, because in expressing my own opinion I might prejudice that of others.