T.—ls.

50

[J. A. FLESHER,

Mr. Mason.] Covering what area ?—The transport area. The population of Auckland is 167,000, roughly, or 30 per cent, more than that of Christchurch, whereas our area is about 16 per cent. more. There is the difference between the two systems. The clause taking away the powers of the Christchurch Tramway Board does not affect us as much as it does the Auckland Transport Board, but its operation would be sufficiently serious to cause us to come here and voice this objection. Section 6 of the Christchurch Tramway Act, which it is proposed to repeal, was enacted to deal with the question of the buses. Under the Motor-omnibus Traffic Act the licensing authority checks the time-tables in detail and approves the fares on an omnibus route. That power was taken away from the Christchurch licensing committee and vested in the Tramway Board, and we want it to remain with the Board for various reasons. Amongst the powers we have is that of supplementing our tramway services by buses. We now have three bus services operating. We had six, but the other three are leased out to other people who are running on their own account, and we subsidize them as the most economical way of handling the matter. Section 6of our Act reads as follows : " The provisions of section ten of the Motor-omnibus Traffic Act, 1926, shall not require or entitle the licensing authority to prescribe the time-tables to be observed by any motor-omnibus services of the Board, or the fares to be charged on such motor-omnibus services, to any further extent than the Governor-General in Council prescribes the time-tables and fares on tramway services carried on by the Board ; but the Board shall from time to time notify the licensing authority of the time-tables and fares fixed by the Board." It goes on to say : " Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the Motor-omnibus Traffic Act, 1926, it shall not be necessary for the Board to obtain any license or permission from the licensing authority to run motor-omnibuses for the purpose of supplementing its tramway service or motor-omnibus service upon tram routes or the Board's authorized bus routes : Provided that only licensed omnibuses shall be used for the above-mentioned purposes." Mr. Harris.'] You have legislated yourselves out of the provisions of the Motor-omnibus Traffic Act ? —Only with regard to the supplementary services. We still have to go to the licensing authority for the licenses for our recognized bus services, but if we have to supplement them we have the power under that section of doing so. Of course, we shall not have it under this proposed legislation if it is passed. Supposing there is a failure of the supply of electric power —we take our power from the Government—we have to provide some transport services. We would have to go through the whole of the procedure which may be laid down in this Bill. We say that as long as we are running on our old route, just to supplement our ordinary tram traffic, to have to comply with all these new rules is unreasonable. I think it will appeal to the Committee that such a provision as we have now is necessary. We work the trams subject to the supervision of the Public Works Department, and we have to obtain the approval of the Governor-General before we can do anything in the matter of routes or fares, &c. Clause 49 is the only clause in the Bill which directly affects the Christchurch tramways. Regarding the matter of the licensing authority, when I read the Auckland Act I thought I would like to see such an enactment in operation in Christchurch ; but it does not affect us as seriously as Auckland, which is connected up with a number of centres. If, however, there has to be an amendment of the law, all centres should be placed on the one footing, and there should not be one law for Auckland, another for Wellington, another for Christchurch, and another for Dunedin. At the same time, with the legislation as it stands to-day, I see no necessity for the changes proposed in the Bill regarding the tramways of the Dominion. The Auckland Act is the latest, it was approved in a. constitutional manner, and it is only right that the rest of the Dominion should be brought into line with the last legislation on this subject. There is a provision in clause 10 of the Bill in regard to trackless trams. Under section 2of the Motor-vehicles Act of 1924 the definition of " motor-vehicle " expressly excludes vehicles which, although not running on rails, derive their motive power from overhead wires, and all students of tramway organization realize that the solution of tramway difficulties in sparsely populated districts is to be found in the application and use of trackless trams. We have this difficulty in New Zealand, and the trackless tram will overcome it. Even in America, where petrol is so cheap, they are not in some cases replacing their worn-out trams by petrol-buses, but by trackless trams driven by electricity. All over England it is being done, and in the Town of Wolverhampton, with a population of 350,000, trackless trams have solved their transport difficulties. It has been an object-lesson to the world. We think there should be no amendment of the Act taking away the right of the tramway authorities to control trackless trams in the usual way. If Wanganui changed its system for trackless cars probably all their difficulties would be solved. In the case of Christchurch there may be a conflict with either the Railways Department, or the Telegraph Department, or the city electricity department under this head. The matter should, therefore, be placed under the expert control of the Public Works Department like our trams are at present. The Lyttelton railway-line electric voltage is 1,500 and the Christchurch tramways is 600, and we have to cross their line, and it stands to reason that it would be far better to have the whole matter under the control of a Department which has an accumulated experience, rather than under a new Department, known as the Transport Department, which may be set up. The Bill would place the licensing of a trackless tram entirely in the hands of a licensing authority which has no experience at all with regard to these matters, and would take it away from the Public Works Department, which has the qualified staff to deal with it. Another matter is that of taxation. The Bill brings the trackless trams under the heavy licenses fees. Of course, I recognize that objection will be raised to their being exempted, and it will be said that the trams will be running on a good road and let them pay. But we are sticking to one track in Christchurch, and proposing to install trackless trams on other lines to get over our difficulty. When I recall that we have seventy-nine miles of track, which is the longest milage in New Zealand, and the smallest population per mile, you will realize how we are circumstanced there compared with other parts where there is a dense population which the trams pass through. On another ground the trackless tram should be encouraged, because, instead of using petrol drawn from America, which is costing this country millions per annum, we are going to use our own locally-pro-duced electricity and keep the money in the country and so provide work for our people. There is