1.—15.

54

[J. A. flesher.

The Chairman.'] The principle is there ?—Undoubtedly. Mr. Harris.'] Can you suggest any amendment there '?—I suggest the Bill should not have a day's consideration. The intention of the Bill is to give preference to local bodies|who own transport undertakings. Do you deny that is so ?*—That may be the intention, but the whole thing is absolutely unnecessary. If it is made clear that licensing authorities are to give preference to the publicly-owned transport services will your objections be removed ? —I have hoped for that, but know it to be otherwise. You claim that the staff of the Public Works Department has proved satisfactory in every way 2—l do, and they have. Have you any reason to suppose that the staff set up by a new Transport Board would not be as satisfactory ? —lf they are going to take over the whole staff of the Public Works Department it might be all right, but it is an unnecessary cost when you have the Public Works Department handling this matter now. Look at the expense involved in handing over the licensing of drivers to the Post Office. Fancy a Postmaster or Postmistress issuing licenses ! That work is done by the local bodies now, and they will be deprived of the 6d. or 9d. on every ss. license they receive for administrative expenses. Is it not costing the local bodies something now annually to issue the licenses ? —That is not very much. It is charged against them ?—ln the case of the Ohristchurch City Council the Traffic Inspectors conduct the examinations, and they do all that work, and we will not get one penny. You think you should still have the charge of the issue of the licenses ?—Exactly; there can be no reason for such a change. You suggested that the local body or borough transport undertaking should have the monopoly. What is your experience as a business man as to monopolies : are they satisfactory ?—I do not say they are, but with regard to public matters the position is different. If any part of the country is determined to have a transport service, and is prepared to mortgage its property to find the capital, then it is entitled to enjoy a monopoly of the business, and it is not right that there men who are financed by motor-manufacturers in America should come in and take the benefit, and that New Zealand people should be exploited for the benefit of others overseas. Did I understand you to say from your commercial experience that a monopoly is not satisfactory, or from a commercial standpoint generally ? —I do not believe in any monopolies of public utilities outside ; but I hold that any public service such as water, gas, and electricity should be supplied to the community at the lowest possible cost. Can you get on without a monopoly ?—You might with one such as you have in mind, but not with the one I refer to. Is not competition the life of trade ? —Not in the matter of transport services. Have you a gas company in Christchurch ? —Yes, and our electrical undertaking competes with that. Do you not think the principle of an independent licensing authority is quite sound ; in other words, that a local body that is running a particular undertaking should not be allowed to refuse a license to its competitors ?—1 do not think the licensing authority should be formed of people who are interested in the license itself. Yet you suggest that the Christchurch Tramway Board should be the licensing authority for that city ? —The Legislature has granted that in Auckland : why there and not for us ? Is not your Board a competent licensing authority ?—I must confess that when I read the personnel of the present licensing authority I was amazed. I never thought such a Board would be set up and be working in Christchurch. Take Sydney, Brisbane, and Melbourne, and note the action of the bodies over there in this connection. We should profit by the experience of other people. The Tramway Board in Christchurch consists of nine men —five elected by the city and four by outside areas. The whole area is fairly well represented, and the Board is elected for three years, and under that system you obtain a much better working arrangement than you would have under this Bill. There is also the power of appeal, which completes the efficiency of the present system. Your Tramways Board is not a licensing authority ? —I do not mind very much whether we are not, if the Appeal Board is made right. I certainly do not think the present Appeal Board is satisfactory. The Chairman.] Do you recognize that, in view of the growth of the transport throughout the Dominion generally, regulation by a Department is necessary ? —I think that is so, and that the Public Works Department has done all right. On general principles, you think it is necessary that some Department should take over the question ? —lt should be controlled, but the Public Works Department can do it. If one Department takes over the transport, should not it control all matters arising out of it, on principle I—lt1 —It is a very wide question, that of transport. In the case of road transport it depends on where the business is coming from, and the class of business ; and if it is in competition with tramways, then there need not be any Board. I refer to a controlling Department: is it not necessary ? —I do not think a separate controlling Department in Wellington is necessary. Not to control the transport in the Dominion as a whole ? —Provided the Government makes its regulations, then the local bodies should do all the work. You have not lived in a rural district ?—I have lived in a city all my life. Is it not reasonable to suppose that if the Transport Department is established it would take over at least all the experience and knowledge which has been acquired by the Public Works Department ?— Judging by what I have seen, they already have in the Public Works Department a sufficient staff, and I do not think what you suggest would be the effect, nor would it be reasonable to expect it.