T.—ls.

56

A. E. JULL.

Witness : Perhaps I did not make myself quite clear. This clause says that a by-law may be disallowed 011 the ground that the subject-matter of the by-law should not be dealt with otherwise than by statute or by regulations of general application made under the principal Act. Of course, if there is anything flagrantly bad about a by-law it might well be disallowed ; but what I mean is that we might be legislating by means of a by-law on a matter which could be of general usefulness, but not provided for in the general regulations. If we framed such by-laws and put them into operation they should not be disallowed until they were superseded by something else. If it were something of general application, then the Minister should say that it was proposed to make a regulation dealing with the matter forthwith, and the counties would know where they were. Hon. Mr. Veitch : You say the Counties Association is going into this matter : I might add that it has already been decided that we will confer with the local bodies before any finality is reached. Witness: lam merely setting out these points for your information. I will pass on now to paragraph (c) of subclause (1) of clause 33. We are not finding fault with this particular clause in a fault-finding way, but it is the beginning of a North and South Island method of doing things, and I am just wondering whether this provision is necessary in the case of special licensing authorities. Personally, I have views as to whether it is desirable at all, but this is the beginning of a suggestion that the North Island and the South Island should be administered as separate entities. I pass on with just that allusion. Now we come to something we know something about —Part VI, dealing with main highways. I will deal first with clause 51, regarding the constitution of the Board. I am perfectly well aware that there has been a good deal of newspaper and other agitation in the South Island in the direction of securing an administrative Board for the South Island, and another for the North Island. Ido feel, however—and the executive of the Counties Association feels the same—that the agitation was largely the result of misapprehension and misunderstanding, if I may say so, regarding the administration of the present Highways Board. Some months ago, when this matter was first suggested—l think it was after the statement by the Prime Minister as to the need of two Boards— the Counties Association (which, of course, represents both the North and South Islands) met, and among the matters then considered was this question of a North Island and a South Island Board. The matter was very fully discussed by the executive, and the discussion was left mainly to the South Island representatives on the executive. A motion confirming the opinion of the executive was moved and seconded by South Island members on the executive, and carried unanimously, the motion being to the effect that it was not considered desirable that there should be two Boards, nor were they expedient or workable. Mr. Healy: Tha.t is not the general opinion, all the same. Witness : You mean, in the South Island ? Mr. Healy: Yes. Witness : The South Island counties, at the invitation of the Asliburton County, held a conference a few months ago. One of the matters of prime importance discussed at that conference was this question of two Boards. Mr. Talbot, who is a South Island member on the Main Highways Board, was present, and also one of the executive officers, and at that time there was even more life in the movement than there was subsequently. A motion was put to that meeting urging the establishment of two Boards, but after a very general discussion it was withdrawn and. never put to the meeting. A very large number of counties were represented at that conference. We held another meeting of the executive yesterday, and we had the reaffirmation of the South Island members who attended the meeting of the motion passed at the conference I refer to some months ago, that in their opinion it was not desirable to change the present method of one Board for the whole Dominion. We quite appreciate that pledges or promises have been made to the effect that what was thought to be a desirable change in the administration of the Board would be effected, and if it can be shown that such a change is desirable, expedient, and workable, then it is for you gentlemen to report what you think. lam only conveying to you the point of view of the counties, which, after all, are more closely in touch with the administration of the Main Highways Board than any one else, and they feel that the proposed alteration will not make for better administration or for greater efficiency, but will be rather the reverse. Clause 51 deals with the particular point; but before I pass on to the other subclauses I would point out that the present Act jjrovides for the constitution of the Board. I think it says that there shall be two representatives to be appointed on the recommendation of the executive of the Counties Association, one member representative of the motor-users, one member will be an officer of the Public Works Department, and two members who will be officers of the Public Works Department or any other Department, or other persons. So that to-day, with the exception that one man is required to be an officer of the Public Works Department, the other two appointees by the Government are at large. The appointments, however, were made entirely from the Public Works Department—that is, the present appointments of the three Government men. My executive feels that there should be at least an Engineer of the Public Works Department on the Board. It is very necessary, I think, that there should be a, man on the Board with technical knowledge, because we have to deal with criticisms and proposals from Engineers of local bodies and others, and it is very desirable that we should have, in addition to our technical officer —who, of course, is not a member of the Board—a man on the Board with technical knowledge. I have no doubt that that is intended, but, as the present Act specifically provides for a member of the Public Works Department, I think it desirable that that should again be specifically stated. There are some other features in regard to that. The administrative work of the Board is now done by the Public Works Department, by whom a charge is made for commission on the expenditure —5 per cent, on construction and 4 per cent, on maintenance. There a.re times — and they are more frequent than you gentlemen may perhaps be aware of —when the Highways Board is called upon to administer, shall I say, censure or disciplinary measures to District Engineers in different parts of New Zealand, who are, in those districts, the Board's representatives. These gentlemen have to send in their requests, and they are called upon to prepare estimates for the various works. They are the gentlemen through whose offices the various counties are approached and negotiations take place. We have to have a fairly tight hold on the activities of those District