n. f. gakdnek,.]

87

1.—15.

In part IV with regard to the carriage of goods, you think the present proposals will have a detrimental effect and force industries into the crowded centres : why ? —Because the further restriction on the transport of goods will force them into the centres. And do you think the effect of this proposed legislation would be to increase the price of transport ? —It no doubt would increase the cost of transport. Every restriction placed on industry slows it down and increases the costs. With regard to the Henderson Town Board, you have given certain figures with reference to buildings. Was there any serious alteration made to the service and the time-table on the introducion of the buses ? —Yes, there was an increase in fares and a reduction in the service. Of course, another thing which probably had some effect on land-values and settlement was the uncertainty created. Before people will invest in land they must have a feeling of confidence—that it is a growing district and that it will continue to grow. Why do you think the present Bill will force people to provide transport for themselves ?—They will not be forced to do so, but they will provide themselves with cars if they are not provided with an efficient service. If you interfere with a good service and compel them to walk distances to transport points they will buy cars. And do you suggest that this Bill would have a tendency that way ? —Yes. You say that the running-costs of a bus are 10id. a mile. Does that include depreciation ?—lt inbludes everything—that is, if it is economically run. It depends on keeping the bus running, and using careful administration throughout—not sending a bus out to a terminus and waiting half an hour for a tram. Mr. Harris.] I gather you say that unrestricted competition, subject to certain control, should be allowed so far as motor-omnibus service is concerned ?—I do not think there is anything wrong with unrestricted competition. It has settled down into a satisfactory state of affairs in London, and it was settling down in Auckland into a satisfactory state of affairs ; but, notwithstanding that, I think the American system, already indicated, would be better than the " open road." There are dangers in the " open road." You get time-tables not properly arranged, and there is racing on the road. You think the speed of the vehicles should be controlled ?—Transport is one of the things which is very difficult to handle. Ido not know why the City Council abandoned the fish-market and took on the transport business. Is it not a fact that in your own district, prior to the coming into force of the Motor-omnibus Act, 1926, as a result of the improved transport facilities you then enjoyed, your districts were going ahead by leaps and bounds ?—Yes. And immediately that Act came into force a decline set in ? —Yes. And that is practically the sole reason of the decline in land-values in those districts ?•—Yes ; that is my definite and considered opinion, and I have had to do with the district for a number of years. As the crow flies, it is near the city ; but by railway it is a long way from the city, which meant under railway transport that the district could not make much headway. But when the buses came there came a period of prosperity. Even in spite of the depression land-values would have increased if there had been decent transport facilities. You have some knowledge of districts similarly placed—beyond Mount Eden or Glen Eden. Would the same argument apply ?—Yes, the same thing has happened. So, generally speaking, the Motor-omnibus Traffic Act has acted disastrously so far as the Auckland suburbs are concerned ? —Yes. With reference to your illustration of A and B running services, you say that under the proposals of the Bill A should get a license for three years ?—Yes. And at the end of that period B could presumably apply for a license also ?■—Yes. The matter would then rest with the licensing authorities ? —Yes, to decide which could best serve the district. Have you sufficient confidence in the proposed licensing authorities to accept their decision as satisfactory in such a case ? —I did not raise any point on connection with the licensing authorities. I think a final appeal to the Supreme Court would be satisfactory to all. But it would be quite possible under the proposals contained in the Bill for a competitive company to apply for a license ? —Yes. Have you sufficient confidence in the licensing authorities as proposed to be constituted to satisfy you that they would allow competition later on, or where they considered the service should be extended or continued ?—I would have sufficient faith in the licensing authorities if its directions under the Act were to consider first the needs of the district concerned and appeal to a Judge where available. Hon. Mr. Veitch : That is the surest thing in the world. This Bill overcomes all your difficulties. Witness : If that is so, there will be no objection. The Chairman.] In some respects it appears to me your evidence appears to be contradictory. In the first place, there is a suggestion approaching very nearly to what may be called free trade, and in another case you say you would only grant a license for one year definitely, and, if the service proved satisfactory, possibly for five years. That is so, is it not ? —Yes. I think it is the intention of the Bill to cover all that ? —lt does not appear to provide for that. It does not mention the cost of service or fares. No, but it gives the Board, as it is proposed to be constituted, power to grant licenses on specific conditions. Naturally, the Bill could not set out the specific conditions : that would depend on the requirements of the locality ? —lf that is how the Act is going to be administered, then it is clear that a good part of our objection is removed ; but we were told the same thing about the last Act.