1.--17.

J. G. RUDDENKLAU.]

43

The average price would be 6s. 3d. ? —Not as much as that. I should say a little over 6s. You have estimated the cost of production at ss. 4|d. a bushel I—Yes.1 —Yes. You are apparently satisfied that the miller is not getting too large a profit ?—Yes. And that the purchaser of bread is not paying an excessive price ? —Yes. I reckon you have the farmer right down to where he can produce wheat at a profit, the miller to where he can produce flour at a profit, and I do not know anything about the baker. In Australia, with wheat averaging ss. 9d., the price of bread is B|d. to 9d. per 41b. loaf, and in New Zealand, with wheat averaging 6s. 3d., bread is lid. to Is. Id. per 41b. loaf, and yet you say there is no exploitation ? —Of course, there is a big difference between Australian flour and New Zealand flour. Does it produce more loaves ? —Yes, it will produce a certain amount more loaves. That would not account for the difference in price ?—Another thing about the Australian flour is that the Australian miller can add a certain percentage of moisture to his wheat when grinding. The New Zealand miller loses a certain percentage, and between the two it is a fairly big percentage. The buyers of bread cannot understand these defects, and are rather anxious about the price they are paying. I understand the sliding scale of duties was fixed in 1927. In the year 1927-28 you grew 75,000 bushels of wheat. The sliding scale was established the next year, and yet you grew only 50,000 bushels of wheat ?—Of course, you cannot grow wheat on the same land year after year ; you must grow it in rotation. The next year—this year —you grew only 35,000 bushels ? —This year I intended to grow 2,500 acres. You cannot always work it so that you can grow the same quantity. I have not been able to. Mr. Macpherson.] It is the result of the variation in the area of wheat grown owing to the position of your paddocks \ —You will find you cannot say definitely that you are going to put in, say, 2,000 acres of wheat. All sorts of things might happen. You may get the grass-grub in your paddocks. You might have some very nice paddocks, and in a few months' time you may have to plough them in. The Chairman.] The point I want to bring out is that when you had ideal conditions in connection with protection you began to grow less wheat year by year, progressively so ?—You mean when we had the fixed price ? You had the fixed duty in 1927-28 ?—Of course, it depends a good deal on the' yield. We have the average yield in those seasons ? —I know one year we had a very poor yield, and in North Canterbury it was one of the best seasons they had. Mr. Waite.] Your place is not the average place ?—No, it is not. Do you place your yield above or below the average ? —lt is only over a period of years that you can strike it. The Chairman.] In your statement you said that there was no exploitation in the price of bread. You were quite sure about that; yet a little while ago you were not so sure ? —ls there not a Board of Trade to watch that ? Ido not think it fixes any price at present. You made two statements there ?—I make the statement that if you have the sliding scale of duties the miller knows what he can get for his flour, and you go a step further and ought to know what the baker can bake his bread at. In your statement you said that the present sliding scale of duties does not raise the price of bread to the consumer, and prevents exploitation of any of the parties ? —With the sliding scale of duties you have something definite to work on. It is known at what price the miller has to compete against Australian flour. I should say your evidence would be more valuable to us if you had confined your statement to the position of the wheat-grower and left the question of the price of bread out of it, and also whether the miller was making a reasonable profit or not ? —I contend that the miller and the wheat-grower are in the same boat. The miller is our only buyer, and if he is not protected he is not going to buy our wheat. We cannot export it. The Chairman r You did export in 1922. Mr. Macpherson.] Taking weather conditions, &c., into consideration, do you think the miller runs more risk than the wheat-grower —who runs the greater risk ? — The grower has the weather risk in addition to the market fluctuations. The risk to the grower is more than to the miller ?—Yes. He has the weather risk in addition. Mr. Finch (accountant for witness) : Might I supplement the witness's statement when he says the sliding scale of duties does not raise the price of bread by saying that bread was the same price when the sliding scale of duties was brought into force as it is to-day. It has remained at that price ever since. That is the real meaning of his statement —the price of bread has not increased since the sliding scale of duties was instituted. Mr. McCombs (to witness).] In 1928, when you grew 25,000 less bushels of wheat than in 1927, was that because you were afraid that the United party might come into power at the next election ? — No. Rev. Mr. Carr.\ If you contend that the position as between the farmer and the miller is all right, why the necessity for a wheat pool ? —I do not believe in a wheat pool. Mr. MeComhs.] You say in your letter to the Hon. Mr. Taverner, " The wheat - grower cannot demand more than a fair price for his wheat in the event of a, short crop in the Dominion." Is there not a provision in our law fixing a maximum price ?—I do not think there is. Then, if flour went up to £20 in Australia, and although there was a full crop in New Zealand to meet the New Zealand demand, there is nothing to prevent the wheat-grower from charging £20, is there ? — I think there is.