J". G. RUDDENKLAU.]

45

I.— 17.

against grazing ?—lf you do not sow with, grass, you have got at the end of your season a stubble paddock, with nothing. But your purpose in sowing the grass is to graze animals I—Yes, to eat it off to what it was before you got it. But if at the end of three years it is worked out, you do not want to put it back—you want new grass ? —Yes. That is a charge that should be made against the animals ? —No. Surely it is sufficient, if the land has to be ploughed, that you charge the skim-ploughing, ploughing, harrowing, drilling, and that sort of thing, and some of that ought to be charged against the renewal of the grass ; and then on top of that you charge for grass-seed and clover, and putting them in. Is it quite fair to charge all those items as against wheat-growing ? —I think it is. The Chairman.\ The point is that you would have to do a good deal of it in any case ? —Yes. If you have produced that much wheat, the wheat has taken a certain amount out of your ground. Mr. McCombs.'] In one instance in your figures you have seed, lj bushels, at 6s. Bd., making it 10s., and in another you have If bushels at 7s. The result in one case is 10s., and in the other 12s. 3d. ? —The first are the figures of the Canterbury Agricultural College, and the total works out at approximately the same as mine. My figures are a little different in different items. You are not quite sure what is going to happen as the result of changing over from wheat to sheep ? —No. If the sliding scale is to continue I am going back to wheat. It seems to me that the wheat-growing is charged on the two crops —the grass crop and the grain crop —and all the expenses of growth are charged against one season's crop ? —I do not think you are quite fair. You say that I have charged the cost of putting in the two crops against the wheat crop. The grass you sow in the spring of the year, when the wheat is about 6 in. high, and the grass you sow is a catch-crop. Many farmers, seeing that the margin of profit on wheat is so small, take that to see if they cannot get grass. Most of them just leave the field in stubble, and sow grass afterwards in the ordinary way. The Chairman.] Is not the occurrence of dry seasons the reason for the grass crops running out 1 —The grass-grub and dry seasons. Have you the same reason for regrassing as other people in different parts of Canterbury ? —Yes. Some of my land has to be regrassed ; and all the wheat-growing land must be regrassed. Is it imperative to regrass where you have a decent rainfall ?—On some of my heavy land there is no need to regrass, but that is not the land where wheat is grown. The costs given to us have been given on the assumption that it is necessary to regrass every three or four years I—Yes.1 —Yes. But not in all cases \ —lt is necessary to regrass on average land. But on your own land ?—I reckon that on all the land on which I grow wheat I have to regrass every three or four years. Have you tried other grasses than Canterbury grasses, such as Poverty Bay grasses or rye-grass ? —I do not know that I have ; but I have several rye-grasses from a pasture of my own, forty years old, which should be just as good. Mr. Macpherson.] Is it not a fact that wheat-growing, when it is done in a practical, scientific way, really puts a man out of operation, so far as grass is concerned, for eighteen or twenty months ? Do you not start in November, and find your grass of little value until the spring of the following year ? —Yes. You plough your land in December or January, you sow it in the way I have stated, and you do not get the use of the paddock in our district until the end of March or the Ist of April, at the earliest. And then only to a limited extent ?—That is so. You have to be very careful. You must not graze it too heavily for the first season. It is practically nearly eighteen months' rent that you can charge ? —Yes. Mr. McCombs.] If you give up wheat-growing, will you not have periodically to sow the land in grass ?—Yes. I do it with turnips, rape, and other crops of that kind. In that case the cost of grass-seed cannot be charged against the wheat crop ? —Hardly. The Chairman.\ You are apparently an ardent Protectionist in regard to wheat-growing: would you give the same consideration to other industries, as a farmer ? —Yes ; I think others are entitled to the same benefit. G. S. Bates examined. (No. 11.) The Chairman.] In what capacity do you appear ? —I am president of the New Zealand Poultry Association. With others I have come before the Committee on behalf of the association to put before you the position of poultry-keepers throughout the Dominion in regard to the wheat question. The poultry industry has occupied in the past a very virile position. It has always stood on its own feet, and it has provided lucrative employment for many thousands of people. It has increased its production, as it was requested by the Government to do, so as fully to cope with local requirements. We have kept our pledge in that direction, and we now find that after having increased our production we are up against the stone wall of the duty on wheat, practically cutting the ground from under our feet. We cannot compete with other countries on the export market, and our local market is limited to a certain extent. We have heard it stated at great length that the wheat-grower cannot grow wheat unless lie has some guarantee as to its protection from the Government. If that is to be the effect of his representations, it makes the case for the poultry-farmer, for he is in exactly the same position. He cannot produce under the existing conditions unless the price of his output is in some way