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Is selling at cost-price carried out to any great extent in your experience ? —ln the grocery trade, definitely no. Some lines you could not possibly sell below cost because they are stamped. There is no slaughtering in the trade ? —No. It usually takes 7| per cent, to 10 per cent, on cost to give a grocer cover —i.e., meet overhead. Of course, there are times when exceptions necessitate you wanting to sell under cost, but no retailer can sell under cost and make a success of his business. Mr. Harris.] Wbat is you genera] line of business ? —I am really a grocer. I sell fancy goods ; I had to to meet the competition set up by Australian people. Do you get a special discount at all ? —Yes. On some things such as sugar, flour ?— No. On many things as much as any wholesaler in New Zealand. I may say that I have not found difficulty with the law as it stands 011 the statute at present. Do you buy solely in New Zealand ?—No. I import from England and sometimes, unfortunately, I am forced to buy elsewhere, but very little. Do you go in for cutting any particular line ? —No, but I do not allow any one to come into the town and sell cheaper. I would like to emphasize this : that there arc some who are making a handsome profit importing cheap, tawdry articles from Japan and selling them at a small margin of profit over landed cost. Wholesalers ? —No ; these retailers who are running these bargain stores. Are you cash and carry ? —I give a discriminate service and discreet credit. Mr. Wilkinson.] Do I understand that those in opposition to the Bill do not include retailers ? — I am not in a position to say, but I think I saw the same retailers on the other side in 1927. Have you ever been refused supplies of goods ? —Yes, but it was through a misunderstanding many years ago, and they apologized to me afterwards. I understand you have male and female employees ? —Twenty-five to thirty-five. Of that number, how many male employees have you ? —I have eight or nine girls on what they call bins —open display. I have three girls in the office. There would be fourteen to fifteen men. The wages are all covered by awards (with the exception of the girls in the office). Some of the men are managers and paid accordingly. I also employ boys. How many boys do you employ ? —A boy in every shop. There is a boy employed in the back of the shop, and in one shop I have a boy on the open display; then there is one in the despatch, department. You heard Mr. Norrie say that when he took over the cash-and-carry system he reduced his overhead to 4| per cent. You believe in a comprehensive service ? —I proved to the P.A.T.A. —to Sir Michael Myers—when I was giving evidence that 8-5 was my lowest overhead, but if Mr. Norrie operated on 4§ I shall have to accept his statement. Mine is a shade under 10 per cent, to-day. In your evidence you do make reference to having been refused supplies ? —There was one case only—a drapery line. lam regarded as a pirate in the drapery business. I have correspondence from Bond's hosiery saying that if I did not charge their prices I would not be supplied with the goods. You do agree to sell at a price ? —Yes, sometimes, because we must have the goods. Mr. Sullivan.] In what towns do you operate ?—Hawera, Eltham, Stratford, Manaia, and Patea. You made a statement that you never allowed another man to sell lower ? —No, I do not. Are you carrying on a cash-and-carry business in any of these towns where, you operate —Yes, in some of these little places it is really cash and carry. I have created this impression that you are not really troubled with competition from cash-and-carry stores to any great extent, is that correct ? —We have had it when the Farmers' Trading Co. came down from Auckland, but they only stayed nine months after paying rent for a year. Supposing you had a man of Mr. Norrie's calibre in each of your towns carrying on a cash-and-carry business, what would be the logical result, would you have to adopt the same method ?—I would not. Do you think that if you had this effective cash-and-carry store competition that your attitude to the Bill would be the same as it now is ?—Yes, emphatically ; 1 would not change my attitude to this Bill. Your overhead was 8-5 in 1927 ? —Yes. Mr. Norrie's overhead was 4£ per cent Mr. Norrie : It was 4£- per cent, in 1910 ; it is 8 now. Mr. Sullivan : Then the service that you are giving would amount to about 2 per cent., but you would employ a greater number of people. Mr. Jordan.] You consider that if the amendment is carried it will lead to the dismissal of employees. Mr. Norrie showed that the introduction of his cash-and-carry method has really led to a reduction in employment because he said that four in the cash-and-carry store could do the work of eight in the service store. This system has lead to unemployment ; it must have done. You say if the amendment is carried it will lead to unemployment, how ?—By women setting up shops. If prices are fixed it will lead to unemployment. The cut-rate has lead to unemployment ? —I submit that if prices are fixed it will lead to unemployment. You think small stores will spring up ? —That is a very grave danger. Is not that a means of getting a livelihood ?—Their husbands are very often working at another job. That practice would get very prevalent. You employ eleven girls ; is it possible that you have somebody there whose husband may be employed elsewhere ?■ —No, I employ only young girls.

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