1.—13 A.

Mr. O'Leary.] That is put as Mr. Sutherland writes it out for me ? —My experience of the wholesale and retail trade in New Zealand is that all they ask from the manufacturer is that they shall be treated as one particular class of trade—for instance, if they—Bryant and May—are going to trade with wholesalers —then they sell wholesale : with retailers, retail. The aim of my company —Philips and Pike, Ltd—and the aim of Bryant and May is that we shall be just, absolutely just, to all interests concerned, and we will not allow a big retail organization an opportunity of crushing out a small retail organization by giving them prices which will enable them to crush out opposition. I have been connected with the business for thirty-seven years—my family are a trading family—five generations have been connected with trade. Branches of my family have built up honourable business all over the world, and we are known throughout the world as absolutely fair and just traders. People know that justice will be done by our firm —in every instance we are fair, and if any one trader sets out to crush his opponent we will endeavour to shield the weaker man. You have not answered my question. Did you promise certain stores that you would not give National Distributors the 7-per-cent. discount that you gave to others ? —We will not give concessions to one retailer above another, and I have stated that that was our policy and will be our policy. We will not change our methods to suit National Distributors. National Distributors took your matches for a number of years on the best terms ? —Yes. And did the business between you cease because you would not give them the full discount given to others in New Zealand 'You emphasize Will you answer the question. Is that so ? The business ceased between you and National Distributors because you would not give them the full discount on New Zealand-manufactured matches ? —We offer to all retailers the full discount to which they are entitled, but to big retailers we decline to give the discount that applies to wholesale merchants. You declined ?—Our sales policy provides for discounts for the small retailer, for the large retailer, and for the wholesaler. Do I understand that you would give National Distributors the equivalent to the retail discount, but you would not give them the wholesale ? —The best retail discount, not wholesale. The business ceased between you \—On their decision. [Mr. Sutherland explained that business in a certain respect had not ceased.] You gave the wholesale discount to them on imported matches, is not that so ? —Yes. You only give them retail discount on New Zealand matches, yet you give them the full wholesale discount on the imported matches. —That is wrong. In what way ? —lt is wrong in this way: that they received the very best wholesale terms up to a certain date on imported and locally made matches, and they received on imported and locally made matches after that date only the best retail discounts. You make a distinction between goods imported and locally made ? —No. During recent months we have executed orders for imported (safetys) from National Distributors Ltd.'s Christchurch house. They have had the best retail discount on the imported safetys. Why the discrimination in respect of National Distributors by your concern ?—Because their socalled wholesale department is merely a blind to enable them to get wholesale discounts —well we saw through the trap. It is a company with branches throughout New Zealand with a capital of £100. This wholesale Department is a blind to deceive the public. You say, " with a capital of £100 " ? —I understand so. It has a capital of £20,000 fully paid up, will you accept that ?—I will accept it. Might I suggest to you that it might be better for your case if you did not make irresponsible statements like this :" a capital of £100." I suggest you withdraw it. —I certainly withdraw it. At one time it had a capital of £100. Mr. Sutherland.] Yes, for one year ?—I was not informed of the change. £20,000 is not sufficient for a wholesale concern trading like this. It is absolutely wrong and very unsound. Mr. O'Leary.] Irrespective of the capital, you do not withdraw your statement that the wholesale department is a mere blind for the retail organization ?—No.

Mr. Boulton, in support of the amendment, read the following statement : — Before the Industries and Commerce Committee. Thomas Bakeb Bottlton, Manager of Fletcher Humphreys and Co., Ltd., Christchurch, Merchants, Tea Blenders and Packers. I personally and my firm support the proposed amendment to the Commercial Trusts Act. Proprietary Lines. —My company own and control the proprietary registered brand, " Amber Tips " tea, a nationally advertised article, which has been on the New Zealand market since 1901. We have a central establishment in Christchurch employing over forty hands, and our business dealings extend right through the Dominion. Our brand and name " Amber Tips " is widely and favourably known, and under the present state of the law that fact is being made to operate not to our advantage, but to our distinct disadvantage. The whole position is anomalous and unreasonable to a marked degree and is made possible, by an Act which was passed with the object and design of preventing either the public or traders being exploited. The principal Act, instead of being the beneficial measure that it was intended to be, is in a marked degree working to the detriment and loss of many people by enabling a system of price-cutting to come into existence to the disadvantage of traders generally. I would not like it to be ssumed for one moment that my firm objects to anything in the nature of fair and legitimate competition. It

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