1.—13 a.

And they had offered to sign an agreement that they would not sell to a retailer who is on your black list ? —We never came to that position, we did not discuss that. They were simply on your black-list and you would not have anything to do with them, is that the position ? —That is the position, we did not care to do business —only on our own terms. You did fix a price, of course, for your Amber Tips tea ?—"Yes. What is it per pound, first grade retail ?—3s. 4d. And for second grade ? —2s. 'lOd. Would I be correct in suggesting that your tea is a luxury tea, notwithstanding that Mr. Sullivan apparently consumes it ?—That is a matter of opinion. There is tea selling retail at Is. lOd. and 2s. ?—I dare say you might be able to get it lower than that. Apart from being a proprietary line, do you accept it that it is a line covered by the Commercial Trusts Act —it is a food ? —Yes. It is a food and covered by the Commercial Trusts Act, and you have had no hesitation in fixing the price for retailers have you ?—Yes. You do not think you are breaking the law when you do that ? —We did not know, but we took the risk. I suggest to you you are not breaking the law when you did that ? —There was a lot of doubt cast upon our action. I suppose your difficulty is this : not in fixing the price, but in maintaining it. That is your trouble is it not ?—Not to-day. That has been your trouble ?—That was our trouble. And just what would be the most effective method of maintaining the price for your tea ? Price-fixation —is that adhered to ?—The most effective method of maintaining it, yes. The amending Bill taking the necessary steps ? That is what I would like to know. Assuming the Bill gives you the power to take the necessary steps, what are those steps to preserve your pricefixation ? —Under the amending Bill we would have the power to request that agreements be signed. I suggest to you that you can do that at the present time ? —You are only talking about my own particular brand, but I am not so much concerned with that as with proprietary lines in general. I am putting it to you quite bluntly that what you want the power to do is this : that if a retailer fights by cutting the price on one article you want him cut off from supplies of other articles ? —No, that will rest entirely with the Government. You remember the P.A.T.A. that was intended to operate in New Zealand ? Was it not the intention that the price would be fixed and if the retailer broke the price fixed for certain articles he was cut off from supplies of other articles ?—We took no part in that discussion. I understand that that was a copy of the British method. I suggest to you that if you wanted to maintain your price that is your weapon I—Yes,1 —Yes, but I would submit that I am dealing with proprietary brands, and I have said in my statement that if the public has not the price there are hundreds of other brands, especially in tea that they can purchase. It does not matter whether it is proprietary brands or anything else, it is food ? —You could not have a fixed price for tea. How do you consider this Act will assist you, Mr. Boulton, to get to this stage where you have written agreements with retailers and your distributors. Now, then your Amber Tips teas have got into a retailer's stores and you find he is not maintaining the price of 3s. 4d. You want to deal with him, and how does the fact assist you to deal with him ? —Well, it will remove any doubt that exists at present by making it perfectly clear that whatever we do we do with our eyes open —we know the penalties. I told you what you would do —that is what I wanted to get from you. The price is fixed, and if a man does not adhere to it you could refuse to sell it. What would be your next step ? —Refuse to sell. You would be getting other people to refuse to supply him ? —Of course, they are our stocks all over New Zealand, and we nominate the selling-price. I may say that we have no cut in it to-day.

Presented by W. Tuck, Master Grocer, Christchurch (representing Tucks Ltd. and Star Stores, Ltd., Christchurch). Price-cutting as a method of business can only be effected by two means- —viz., by a considerable reduction in the gross profit and probably capital, or a reduction in the various services rendered to the public. With the first we are not concerned, but the second reason is a direct cause of much unemployment to-day. Cheap foodstuffs and household articles which are to be seen in the department store and cutprice shops are frequently manufactured in one-man premises free from the supervision of the Health Department or the factory inspector. The proprietor works from daylight till star-light, and far into the night, while his competitors, who have complied with all the requirements of the various Government Departments and have well equipped factories, are compelled to reduce their staffs. The direct result of retail price-cutting. So much for the manufacturing end. The retailing is no less concerned by the elimination of delivery, order-calling, credit, and other services, the price-cutter is able to dispense with one-third of his staff, and still do the same amount of business (if he cuts enough). The proportion of his staff that was employed would then be unemployed. It will thus be seen that even the most ardent opponent of price-fixing cannot work on no gross profit.

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