1.—13 A,

The general public is getting goods cheaper and that should increase the birth-rate ? —The reason for that is that warehouses have had to put employees off because the chain stores people have got the trade. Most of the people previously employed were married men. The witness has given figures in regard to the people put out of employment owing to the operations of the chain stores, but he does not give any figures of the people employed by the same chain stores to offset it ?—On this list there are grocers, managers, &c. Yes, but surely they did not all go out of employment because of the chain stores ?—Campbell's manager, Mr. Reid, who bought the business, said that he could not possibly pay senior wages and compete with the junior labour and the long hours overtime worked by the chain stores. —Now I can quote the figures to-day. These figures show the number of grocers after the chain stores had been operating, but does that include the people employed by the chain stores ? —Yes. I took the record a couple of days ago and it is practically the same.

List of Grocers, etc., 8th October, 1935.

Note.—None of the above persons engaged in the trade are supporting children. (The Committee adjourned at 1 p.m.) 10th October, 1935, (Afternoon). The Chairman (Mr. McLeod) in opening the meeting remarked on the difficulties of members in getting away from the House at the present time. Witness : Mr. J. M. Barley, Grocer, Wellington (Cross-examined). Mr. Wilkinson.'] Could not some of the difficulties that you have outlined be got over by an award providing for so many adult persons and so many juniors ? —I would like to point out that lam referring to departmental stores ; employees visible in four departmental stores were 102 girls and only 20 men ; an enormous proportion of girls are employed and these girls are selling grocery lines. These departmental stores are doing a big proportion of the trade—employing girls at low wages. The Chairman.] Is there not an award ?—There is an award specially for the departmental stores. They employ cheap girl labour. Mr. Wilkinson.] Would not an award suitable in both instances get over the difficulties to some extent ? Yes, that is perfectly correct. That would be the solution of the whole trouble. The same award—instead of the Shops and Offices Act and the Factories remove all the difficulties. Mr. Ansell] According to your view the success of the chain stores is based on cheap labour ?— Yes. On the last page of your statement you say, " The departmental stores are now selling grocers' lines, and with the cheaper girl labour they are cutting prices so low that they will seriously retard the r'eintroduction of married assistants into the trade." What wages are paid to these girls ?—They are not paid £4 ss. per week, which is an assistants' wage. You are of the opinion that girl labour has displaced men and wholesale firms have therefore had to go out of business ?—Yes. (Penultimate paragraph of statement.)

61

! Grocers. Managers. Assistants. Wives. Children. parents. Tota1 ' Before chain stores .... 9 1 29 13 29 2 83 About fout years later .... 6 3 18 6 5 1 <59 8th October, 1935 .. ■ • 6 6 13 6

drocers. Managers. : Assistants. Wives. Children. Aged Parents. Hoopers .. •• •■ 1 1 •*■ Reduction Stores .... 1 Osbome ...... 1 • • 1 Phillips ...... •• •• •• Jennings ...... 1 • • 1 Barleys .. .. • • 1 • • 1 J Self-Help— Gordon Street ...... 1 Riddiford Street ...... ] Star Stores .. . • •• • • 1 1 Dilloways — Bank Corner ...... 1 1 John Street .. . • • ■ 1 J 6 6 , 13 6