I. —13a.

Mr. O'Leary.] Apparently the retailers are very happy under the present position so far as tobacco is concerned ? —Compared to what we were. The method of vending tobacco is uniform —cash over the counter ? —Yes, practically speaking. Will you concede to me that a retail business in which the whole of the business is so done is in a different position to another trade, like grocery, where you have different types of vending « The larger man may not be able to do the same thing as you «—I cannot see that. I suggest that the reason is no uniform method of vending «—I do not see that uniformity of vending has anything to do with it. I suggest it must have. Is not your business equivalent to 100 per cent, cash and carry—your tobacco-vending «—Yes. Have your members seen the agreement which was put in by Mr. Sutherland « Have they been called on to sign it ?—I was not here when it was put in. These agreements are purely it the air ; they are purely under discussion as a means of maintaining our price stabilization. Ido not know whether you have the latest amendment; fairly drastic is it not ?—They are very well drawn up So well drawn up that you will not sign them at the present time «—That I cannot say, I have not been asked to. But you have seen it « How long have the agreements been under review ?—Just a few weeks. They are still in the air. They are still in the air as to whether your members will sign them or not «—We have asked for agreements for sale so as to maintain stabilization—they are drafted as a basis for discussion. Ido not know whether the letter which accompanied them is there, telling us that they were put forward as a basis for discussion ; and discussion is still going on, and amendments in the matter of advice and control are already being printed. I suppose you and the members of your association are not so simple as to think you are going to get away without signing this agreement or something similar «—We can get away easily without signing this agreement if we wish to. We have affirmed the principle of an agreement. We have not finished discussing the details, and I may say that I am not in a position to discuss the details. I will just read you one clause of the statement : " Any member of the association . . with a person, firm, or company ... on such terms and conditions as he shall think fit." (See agreement.) That is fairly drastic. [Mr. O'Leary read A, B, C, and D, of agreement.] «—I am sorry lam not in a position to discuss them in detail. The documents have been drawn up by eminent counsel, and eminent counsel do confuse the layman. I cannot see any confusion to eminent counsel. If clause 40 is carried into effect there would be no flooding of the market with cheap cigarettes in New Zealand would there ?—No, as suggested to Mr. Wilkinson. As far as I can see it, it is purely a manufacturers' arrangement, with which we have nothing to do. I commend to you the perusal of some of your own agreements before you come along to give evidence «—We have no agreements. This is what they are going to impose on you, you know. You are a retailer. [Mr. ' aget dropped the agreements on the floor.] They are like that exactly—they may be dropped. They may go through and they may fall to the ground. They are drawn up for three groups, and they would go through undoubtedly i£ there is reason between the three groups, without reason and moderation between these three groups they will not go through. Who are the three groups «—Retailers, manufacturers, and wholesalers—the retailers oi JNew What is going to happen if the retailers are reasonable, but the merchants and the manufacturers are not «—I am afraid the merchants and manufacturers might find themselves in the soup. I do not anticipate any grave difficulty. I think there will be a difficulty «—We all realize that there are difficulties but, of course, difficulties crop up in everything. Grave difficulties cropped up in the first stabilization., but we have all worked to make a reasonable, fair, and equitable position, and it has turned out all right, so far. You say that a number of new shops have been opened since the price stabilization «—Eleven. I understand that a number of these are open shops financed by individuals who do not attend there themselves ; they employ one or two girls ? —I do not know of any. Open shops are everywhere ?—Girls who are not the owners may be employed m the shops. Let us keep to the point. Do you know that a number of these shops are shops financed by individuals who do not attend the shops «—Absolutely, no. I say it is not so ; definitely it is not so. I can give you more information ; I do know. You ought to. Mr. Paget: It is a definite fact that the open shops do employ girls, but they are not run by girls who have no interest in the business or the owners of which are absent. The Chairman.] Is it not a common thing to call in an officer of the Department to assist you m straightening out difficulties that occur in trade « I know that that has been done. Their services are available to try and smooth out difficulties «—I know that your Department has been consulted a good deal, and'in this connection—in fact, in many of our association matters—we have always had the greatest assistance from your office.

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