AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume XIX, Issue 1945, 10 October 1863, Page 3

AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 9. Tub Speaker took the Ohair at 8 o'clock. PAY OF THR SRRGT. -MAJOR OP POI.TOB. Mr. Fo&ey asked tho Provincial Secretary — u The reason why the Sergoaut Major of Police has been reduced ono shilling per day in his pay below that of hia predecessors, and what reason the Government had in making such a deduction ?" Mr. Daldy said that the difference of pay between each of the different" grades of officers in the police force had been, origiually Is. a day. Two or three years back an error had crept into the estimates, which had been corrected in 1863, and the Council had passed them as they now stood j and the payment was made accordingly.

* ADVERTISING THE GAZETTE. Dr. Por,T,Etf askotl the Provincial Secretary— " Whether any, aud if any, what arrangement lias been entered into with an Auckland newspaper — the Southern Cuoss— for the re-publication, in the form of an advertisement, of the Provincial Govei'iiment Gazette?' Mr. Daldv replied that an arrangement had been entered into with the Southeu.v Ckoss for the publication of the Provincial Gazette. From pressuio of business dming the last two days, he was not in ft position to stato the particulars of the arrangement, but that ho would give them to tho lion, member in writing as soon as ho could. TItIVATK OtUKVANOES, Dr. Pollen moved "That tho petition of Thomas Kerr, late Master RN., be referred to the Pi ivate Giiovance Committee." — Agreed to. Mr. Harrop moved, •« That the petition of Mr. Win. Tissiman be referred to tho Pi ivate Grievance Committee." — Agreed to, MR. SANDERSON'S RESIGNATION. Dr. Polled moved, "That a respectful Address be presented to his honour the Superintendent, requesting that he will lay before this Council copy of tho coi rcspondonce relating to the resignation of tho office of Provincial Engineer, by Mr. Charles Saiuleisou." The Council would agree with him that wheu a public officer was dismissed the Council should know tho reasons. The Executive had undoubtedly a right to an uuembairassed choice of their servants ; but, on the other hand, the difficulty of (iniling efficient public servants in this province had beou very great. Ho thought tbat to iuduco capable persons to take service under tho Governmeut inducements should be held out to them of permanency of employment and protection. The Council would not wish to see a system based upon election voting. To discharge the duties of a public ofiicer well, men required a ceitain kind of twining ; and when they got that, if they weie men suited to their office, they weie valuable seivants whom it was dcshfible to retain. Now Mr. Sanderson, the l.vto Piovinci.\l Engineer, after six yeais' soivice had been suddenly dismissed, or rather had 1 esigncd, on leceiving a strong hint from his Honor as to tho couuo he had better Like ; and the Council ought to know thegi omuls of Ins dismissal. Ostensibly he was dismissed for iucompeteucy, but leallyforfanlts caused by Ins Honor's inteifeieime in the woiks under Mr. S.s charge He applauded his Honor's activity, but condemned his uinvaiiauled inteiference in the details of woiks under tho care of an engineer, an uiterfeience which had been pi od active of (lisastious jesults. Nothing appealed to come amiss to his Honor, from meddling with road con ti acts to taking ch.nge of haiboui nffaus. Finding on recoid no chaige of neglect, inefficiency, malveisation of office of any kind whatever, he wished to know on what grounds Mr. Sanderson had been dismissed, and this tho Council had a right to ask. The practical effect of this transaction had been a multiplication of offices. They would have a provincial engineer aud a road surveyor, and also a provincial aiolntect with the requisite staff, giving plenty of convenient pafcionagf, if the Council did not take some notice of such ti attractions. Mr. Dai.dy said he would not oppose this motion, but wonld leavo it to the good sense of the Council whether it should pass or not. Obviously, it was merely a groundwork for having a good fling at the Government If Mr. Sanderson had any cause of complaint against the Supciintendcut, the biduuiy couise, of petition to the Council, was open to him ; but it was a different thing for a momber to bung it forward in this way as a political question. The only icason for which Mr. Randei son was lemoved, or rather, asked to send in his resignation, was told him in plain and fitting terms, viz. ; —that tho Supcunteudcut did not appiove of his manner of carrying on the woiks of the countiy, and therefore lequested him to resign; and time was given him for closing up, in a proper manner, woiks then going on. If the Council were to investigate the dismissal of eveiy officer without that officer coming forward to make a complaint, no Government would be able to canyon In all its appointments the Government had had a view only to the best mteiests of the piovinee, and no officer had left their employ on any ft ivolous and ti umped-np charges ; but they had been always told plainly what it was for. The Council could not do a uioie injurious thing than to iuterfeie with the action of the executive pov\ er in matters of this kind. Then the hon. mover had had the bad taste to make allegations against the Supeiintcndent, who was not pre-ent to defend himself, he had constituted himself collector of little tales of gossip about his Honor. The hon. membei had spoken of the Supeiintcndent taking charge of the hiubour. (He (Mr. Daldy), did not hear of it, but he knew tho chcumstance to which the hon. member alluded. The Superintendent, feeling that his (Mr, Daldy 's) knowledge in matters of this kind was gi eater than his own, had usually submitted them to him, but m consequence of his duties at the Council occupying him the other day, I when a complaint was made winch appeared to be urgent, his Houor went down to see tho officer concuined, but did not interfeie with him at all. He (Mr. Daldy) felt ashamed of having to stand up in the Council to answer every idle tale picked up on the whaif or the Great South Road lespecting his houor the Superintendent. It was loweiing to the hon. member for City East to bring such petty talk here, and it should be beneath tho Council to discuss it. With legal d to the Chisholms Bush affair, he had never hdaid of it • pciliaps the hon. member would take au opportunity of placing a notice on the paper for an inquiry into that little affair. The hon. member had spoken of "convenient patronage." He (Mr. Daldy) denied that the present meut had directly or indirectly used patronage for political pin pose, and proof to the contiary was known to eveiy member of the Council. The papeis asked for would be freely produced, if desiied, but ho would leave tho question au opeu one in the hauds of the Council, whether it was wise to pass this motion. Mr. Harrop was sorry the lion, member had put this notice ot motion on the paper, for Mr. Sanderson's professional abilities could not be discussed in tins Council. He hoped the motion would be withdrawn. Mr. Batejian, on behalf of tho harbour master,

contradicted tbe report refened to by Di\ Pollen. Mr. Wynn must oppose the motiou, and press his opposition to a division, lie denied that a public seivaut had a vested light in his oflice, or that the Council li.ul any thing to do with his dismissal, unless he had a special grievance arising from the way he was dismissed. It would have been as woll for tlio lion, member to have looked a little backwards before he talked about partisan appointment and dismissals. But if a Ciovorumeut did dismiss a servant on no other grounds, the Council had still no right to inquire into it. Government could not bo carried on on stioli a footing. He hoped the Cotaicil would sco that as an exceptional case had not been made out, there was no alterative but to withdraw the motion. Dr. Pollen iv reply held that what lie was asking was perfectly reasonable under tho circumstances, and pressed his motion. The motion being put was negatived. Nonni noAD rkpairs. Mr. Allan O'Nkill moved, "That an address be piesented to his honor the Superintendent, requesting him, that in the vote of credit for immediate expenditnie, he will placo the sum of one hundred pounds for carrying out the work specified in the Addiess of the Council on the 7th instant." Seconded by Mr. Himnos and agieed to. KAIVARA TO WAITBMATA. Mr. Allan O'Neill moved, " That an address be presented to his honor the Superintendent, requesting him to have tho necessary survey made, with plans, sections, &c., for connecting tho Waitemata river with the wateis of the Kaipara, by a tramroad ; the plans to be laid on the table of this house on the first day of sitting of tho Council after the adjournment. The v distanco ho said was about 13 miles on a level lino. Tho oxpense would be very little, indeed, kauri being plentiful, and all that was necessary to be done was to remove the excrescences of the earth. It would opou a large district aud waa the main highway to the A lbertland settlement, and the gentlemen inteiested in tho districts were piepared to give secmity for, the expense of money. , The snrvey of these different lines would only cost £40 or £ 50 instead of £500, as in the oase of the Drury railway. Theie was no engineering difficulty whatever. Mr. Kerb bad great pleasure Jn seconding the motion,

Mr. Daldy hoped the Council would adopt -this resolution. He had only lately been aware that sucli a work would bo practicable. Ai a means of communication between the east and west coast it would be of thogreate»t importance to the whole province and was an. essential want, to the northern division which would do more to remove the difficulties of the Kaipara harbour and to promote the settlement of the district than subsiding the railway. If it were found practicable nothing more advantageous could be done, and if not it was worth £60 to know whether or not it was so. Mr. Batem/n gave the motion his hearty support. Mr. Cheeseman said this would be the greatest of boons to the settlers at Albertland, communication with which was at present most imperfect, inconvenient and expensive. — Motion agreed to. PRIVATE QRIEVANCR KEPOBT. Mr. WYiuflnoved, " That the first interim report of the Private Grievance Committee be adopted. "The tenor of the report was that the consideiation of all petitions referred to this committee should bo deferred till after the adjournment. Motion agreed to. lIOUSE COMMITTEE. Mr. Wynn moved tho adoption of tho interim repot t of the House Committee. Mr. Hidings seconded the motion. Mr. J. O'Nuili, thought the Committee had travelled beyond their sphere, and undertaken the duties of Provincial Engineer in providing for road expenses, new fences, &c. Mr. ICeur defended tho report. He thought tho country members weie greatly indebted to the Committee. Mr. Cadman, Mr. GALLAueiiiER, and Mr. Harrop took the same course. My. Wyhn did not caTe whether the Committee had travelled out of their sphere or not. They had done good, and that was sufficient. Report adopted. Mr. Wynm then moved that the report be referred back to the Committee with instructions for them to cany out their recommendations. NOMINATED SUPERINTENDENTS. Mr. Wynn moved the adoption of the following repoi t of the Snperintetidency Election Committee. " Tho Select Committee, to whom was referred this question, have the honor to report as follows 1 — " Ist. That tho election of Superintendent, by the Electors at large, has not in practice been found conducive to tho welfare of this Proviuce. "2nd. That the mode of election adopted in ' The New PiovincesAct, ISsB,' is one which your Committee consider best calculated to secmo the desired object. "3rd. That your Committee do not, however, recommend that the Superintendent should be eligible for a seat in the Council, as piovidcd in the said Act ; but being elected as aforesaid, his seat in the Council (should he be a Member) should bo vacated, and his functions as Superintendent remain as at picsent. "R. W.Wynn, "Chanman." — The first part he had no doubt there would be.no question about. With regaul to the second, the mode of election adopted m "'l he New Provinces Act" was by the Council themselves, — as in the case of the election of Chaiunaii to the City Boaul Some member-) might wish the Superintendent to be elected out of the Council alone, but thar would be unfait to tho constituency as well as to the members themselves. Such a mode would imnow the choice too much, and peihapi lesult in no efficient peison being found to fill the office. The ' Now Piovinces Act,' however, in his opinion, took a quite unconstitutional coinso in allowing the Superintendent to sit in the Council, eithei ns Speaker or private member. The Act might woik well in small constituencies, but he was satisfied that this piovision of it would not succeed in a ltuge one like An<,k).in<). The Committee being of this opinion, had lecommended that the Supeiinteudent's function should lemain as at present. Mr Kerk seconded the motion. He was satisfied that no change m the mode of election would be for the worse; and icfened to the gioss couuptiou which had prevailed under the present system. Mr. Koso would oppose the leport, because the time of notice provided m the Act, previous to an election was too short. Mr. Wi NX c\j)l lined that it was meant to apply those details to this province. Mr. Ross believed that under the system proposed oue portion of the population would have an undue advantage over the other, and therefore he must still oppose it. Mr J. O'Nnn,T. said the electors should not be hastily depuved of the pnvilege confened on them by the Constitution Act. He believed that a change was lequired. but it was not on the ground of corruption which hchelicvcd would prove its own cine. ITe did not think the change proposed would have the effect of stopping bribery. The only difference would be that a few Luge bnbe.s would be requited instead of many small ones — (Oh ! oh !) Be did not however, think the Supciiiitendenfc should bopuiely the nominee of the Provincial Council unless, indeed, he weie elected out of, as well .is by the Piovinoi.il Council, and he would move au amendment to that effect, in the second clause. Mr C \dw vn could not agree to throw the whole power of governing tho proviuce into the hands of a small coterie. No grounds for the change had been Stated "Why did not the United States do away with the system of electing their Picsidcnt? In what weie w e better and worse than they? If the lepoit waa adopted, and action taken upon it in the House of Representatives, he was convinced there would be an almost universal petition ngainst it ; and he would oppose it now. Mr. Cheesgmax said this was a grave question — nothing less than the disfianclnsement of the entire community. Sach alterations should not be adopted till the opinion of the constituency had been taken upon it. He admitted the existence of a great evil in the piescnt system, but did not think the pioposed remedy was the best one. He could not, theiefoie, vote for it. Mr. GALiiAuounn was not prepared to give hi* vote for such an important alteration, hll moie necessity was show n. If there weio no bi ibers there would bo no bubed. Mr. May considered that the Superintendent would bo moie clear of paity influence under the pioposcd system. None could deny the existing evil, and he would vote for the first clause, but could not go the whole length of tho second. Mr. Dam)Y said the Superintendent was the head Executive officer, guided by this Council, and having no power to do anything contiaiy to their with. There was not, theiefoie, that need for him to be eaected by the wholo constituency that there was for the members of the Council themselves. In deciding upon this question, then, he rocomnteuded members to consider what the nature of the Snperiiitendency office was. The law they had found could not lemcdy the system of cortuption hithcito existing. A new system must, therefore, be devised, and he believed that election by the Couucil would answer tho cuds desired. ' Mr. Rowe, as a member of the Committee, said he had agiced to this lepoit because he believed the abuses which had been mixed up with the elective system were so deep rooted that they would not now bo got lid of without a change of system. Not seeing any better mode, he believed that the Council should choose the Superintendent-, but not out of their own body exclusively. He should support tho repoi t, aud the principle of the New Proviuces Act, referred to m it. Mr. Kinu w onld vote for the change, not to prevent bribery, but for the sake of good Government. Hithcito Superintendents had occupied an independent position, and placed themselves in antagonism to tho Council ; but now that evil would be remedied. There would, however, be more bribery at tho district election. That system of conniption might, however, bo cured by other means. It was chiefly caused by the candidates themselves, and by them should be abolished. Ho believed the day was not far distaut when the electors would desiie to be represented by lespectablo and able men. Mr. A. O'NEUiii thought tho cure for corruption was to purge the roll from the floating population. He would vote against tho whole repoi t. Mr. Wynn replied, and tho chairman was putting the motion, when Mr. Cheesebian suggested that the hon. mover should withdraw the report for the present, in order that it could be more fully discussed at a future meeting of tho Council. Mr. Wynn said he would prefer that the liist clause should be read and adoi>teil. He would then consent to allow progiess. to bo reported. The motion was put and the Council divided as follows : Ayes, 10; Messrs. Wallace, Rowe, J, O'Neill, Ridings, May, M'Kenzie, Daldy, Kerr, Wynn, and King. __ Noes, 7 5 A. O'Neill, Cadman, Williams, Cheeseman, Gallagher, Ross, and Georgp. The clause was consequently carried. Mr. Wynn then moved the adjournment of the debate until Wednesday next. Seconded by Mr. Chbksuman, and carried. MESSAGES. 1 Message No. , 18 was received from his honor the Superiuterident, submitting for consideration of the Council a Bill to Amend tho Empowering Act, 1863. The bill was read a first time, ordered to b< printed, aud read * secoud time on Weduesday next.

Message No. 19 enclosed comparative statement showing the snm voted for the services of the Provincial Council for the year ending 3Jsl December, 1863; the expenditure for the period ending 30th September, 1803 ; the balance available on each vote, and sums paid in excess of votes. The message and enclosures wer# ordered to be jaunted. ASYLUM COSIMITTEE. On motion of Mr, JXujdy, the report of tho Asylum Committee was ordered to be forwarded to his Honor in the usual manner. PANMUKE BRTDOE BIHi. Mr. Wynw moved the second reading of this bill. Carried. The bill was read a second time and the Council went into committee. The first clause was read and progress was then reported. Mr. Kerb moved that a select committee he appointed to consider the best means to be taken for the erection of a bridge over tho Tnmaki river at Panmure. The committee to consist of Messis. Cadman, Bateman, A. O'Neill, Buckland, Cheeseman, Foley, Hairop, Wallace, Martin, Wynn, and the mover, with libeity to call for persons and papers. Mr. Wynn suggested that the motion should be altered to read "That the Panmnre Bridge Act, 1863, be referred to a Select Committee." The alteration was made, aud the motion on being pnt was earned. ADJOURNMENT.

Mr. Daldy moved "That the Council at its rising do adjourn until Tuesday, at two o'clock." There was a largo amount of business on the paper, and it; would therefore be deiirable to meet a little earlier than usual. The motion was agreed to. The Council rose at a quarter-past six o'clock 4