THOSE CRAZING RUNS.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXVI, Issue 2307, 28 September 1908, Page 1

THOSE CRAZING RUNS.

STRAIGHT TALK BY MR. MASSEY.

GOV ERNAIENT SUTI’OIUERLEI s RENEWALS; OIM’OSI'LIOMSL DOES NOT.

[Speoiai. to “Times.”] WELLINGTON. SopL 2(1. Speaking on the Imprest Supply Hill Mr. Horries dealt with tlu> administration of the small grazing runs system. A number ol the leases of such •runs, he said, were now lading in, “and,” lie added, “great dissatisfaction is expressed throughout the country at the action of the Laud Hoards or the Minister of Lands with regard to tho renewal or non-renewal of some of these runs. I am not going to alludo specially to the three runs regarding which the Mouso has ordered that the correspondence bo laid on the tablo. I only express (ho hope that the Minister will lay that correspondence on the table of tlio Houso before we adjourn, and not keep it over until aftor the election. I am quite satisfied that- the Lands Department has nothing to hide, and there is no reason why tho return should not be laid on the table of the House. It will allay a good deal of fooling in tho Hawke's Bay Land District, and especially in Poverty Bay. “What is tho position-of these runs which wore lot in 1895 P There is a doubt, and I think al considerable doubt, as to whether the tenants should have a renewable lease or not. It lias never been properly decided in the Supremo Court. There is a judgment of Mr. Justice Cooper with regard to whether (hoy have the right of renewal or not, but it was in a case in which the right of renewal was only a side issue. It was the case of Smith v. tho Government Advances to Settlers Department, and the judgment was really as to whether the plaintiff had a right to the improvements because ho got a fresh lease in lion of tho old one. Incidentally, Mr. Justice Cooper said there was no right of renewal, but I am not aware whether the learned counsel engaged in the case really argued that point before His Honor. The judgment was not appealed against, because plaintiff had gained his ease in regard to the other matter lie was seeking for judgment oil, and the Advances to Settlers Department did not appeal because they only wanted a declaration of the law as far as they were concerned. “In some instances now, the leases were being renewed, in others they wore not. There did not appear to bo any'fixed rule on the subject by which tho leases are either determined or renewed. Even the recommendations of the Land Board are not always followed by the Minister. The procedure seems to be that the Laud Boards sends out a ranger to report as to whether the leases should bo determined or not, or whether the land Is suitable for cutting up. The Board then forwarded the recommendation to tho Minister. It appears from a good many instances that tho Minister can practically do what lie likes; cither adopt tho recommendations of tho Land Board or alter it or do something entirely different. In certain districts,” added Air. Kerries, “those who have gone on these small grazing runs have done immense service to tho country, becausu they have gone on to the baekblocks far away and gone in for a system of cultivation, clearing the bush, and burning the scrub in a way that other tenants would not have done, ano now, instead of rewarding tlioin for their industry, wo aro taking aw;, v from them the right of going to tb6 Land Board and oxcliang ng thenlease for . the leasc-in-perpetiii v, which they formerly held. Aril,, mark you, tho principle goes srmewliat further, because under last year’s Act the tho man if he has g.-l liis exchange under tho leaso-hi peipetuity can go on the market and get a valuation at the present value and turn liis leaso-in-nerpotuity into a freehold. That is what some of the tenants have done in tho case of these small grazing runs, so that you take away liis right, not only to go to the Land. Board and, if the Board thinks fit, can give him a lease-in-perpetuity, but you also take away from him his right of getting the freehold, and the consequence is that you have done him a double injury. I hope, therefore, that the Alinister wi 1 consider the position of these small grazing run-holders. It is a serious thing for them, and I hope also that some regular system will be adopted of dealing with smalEgrazing runs, and that there should not be the idea, which, I am sorry to say, is prevalent, that one man can get his lease renewed while the other has to give it up. Mr. AlcNab: That is not so. Air. Herries: I did not think that was the case. J am not accusing the hon. gentleman of that, but I say that the impression is abroad that some holders of small grazing runs are getting favored by being allowed to renew, and others are not. I hope the Alinister will adopt a uniform system over the recommendations of the Board in every case, or if he is not satisfied with the recommendations of the Board to send it back to the Board and get a further report, and not as has been done in somo instances, send special valuers that- are not engaged by the Board. Hon. Mr. AlcNab: Only an certain cases we do that. Air. Herries: I do not think these certain cases should occur.

Air. AlcNab: They sometimes do occur.

; Alr. Herries: One does not know the needs and different arrangements of the Lands- Department, and I am not saying there is anything wrong; only people if they see special valuers going down think there’s something up, and I think it would be better for the Alinister if ho did everything through the Board and not through bis own valuers or by himself.

Mr. Massey also referred to the same subject. “I am inclined to believe,” he said, “that unthinkingly and without proper consideration, we did a very serious injustice when we altered the "provision in the Land Act and took away the right the holdersegf these runs enjoyed to have their leases renewed. I have had correspondence referring to the Gisborne district, and the position seems to be that the leases of three or four grazing runs there terminated at the same time. If land occupied as grazing runs is required for settlement, and if the law allows us to take it without doing an injustice to the holders, it is right that the grazing runs should he cut up, hut we have arrived at this position so far as the Gisborne district is concerned :—The leases of three or four grazing runs, according to the letters I have received, terminated at the same time. One of these grazing runs was occupied by a man in the Gisborne district who is prominent supporter of the Government in the electorate.

Mr. McNab: What was the number of the run?

Air. ALassoy: I will give you the man’s name. It was Mr. Hall. Iluse was renewed, but tnc leases ol (he other men, who were in exactly tho same position, were not renewed. They wore not supporters of tho Government. I atp speaking plainly upon this question, and I think the hon. member for tho Bay of Plenty handled it very gently. The Minister takes up this position—that the Land Board recommended in .1 lull’s case that tho lease should he renewed. Thai I do not dispute, hub if that is the case I ask the lion, gentleman to lay on the table the letter from the Land Board to himself roeommonding this. ALr. AlcNab: Then you do not deny that the Land Board l-ccommcndcd it?

Mr. Massey: N<>, I do not deny it, hut I will put another question to tin, hon. gentleman. Will lie deny that in Air. Black’s case also the Laud Board recommended that the lease should he renewed ? Will lie deny.that? Air. McNeill: I will look up the papers in a minute. Air. Massey: I venture to say lie will not deny it. I sav that if it was right that the icr-e should bo renewed in the ease of Air. Hall, then it was right that it should bo renewed in tho ease Black. The cases were exactly parallel, only, unfortunately, one man was a supporter of tho Government and the other was not. Wo have heard a lot about the administration of tho Lands Department during the last few years, and wo cannot come lo any other conclusion than that the administration of the Department is very for from satisfactory. If I were Minister of Lands and this statement were made I would have a full enquiry into the whole of the circumstances and allow Parliament and the people of tho country to find out for themselves whether or not an injustice had been done to these men wlio.se runs are being taken from them, and come of the best, of our settlors hold land under tho grazing runs system of tenure.

Mr. AlcNab: You are speaking too warmly.

Air. Massey: I hope not. I always fool warm when any injustice is being done, and I believe an injustice is being done in this case. I think it is the duty of the Alinister of Lands, the head 1 of the Department, to put tho matter right, or to give Parliament an opportunity of putting the inatter right and preventing any similar injustice from being done ill the future.

Air. AlcNab (who was leaving for Christchurch by the evening steamer) asked leave to make a statement regarding the Gisborne runs, and Mr. Massey gave way to him. Ho said the facts were that in Hall’s case the Land Board was of opinion that the run was not fit for cutting up and that in Black’s case it was fit for cutting up. Ho acted accordingly. Sir Joseph Ward, speaking later in the evening, repeated AL- AlcNah’r, explanation, and said ho did not believe the Government would stoop to know what Hall’s or Black’s political rolors were. It was, lie added, a black business from the point of view of the Opposition, but that the lion, gentleman had struck the wrong note.