“LOOKING BACKWARD.”

Gisborne Standard and Cook County Gazette, Volume IV, Issue 506, 13 September 1890, Page 3

“LOOKING BACKWARD.”

A VICTORY FOR MATAWHERO AND

BELLAMY.

Far and av ay the beat evening that has yet been spent under the auspices of the Union Literary Society— and it has had many •uccessfu! ones—was that of Thursday. The night was miserable and wet. but the building wj.B well filled, and it was pleasing to Observe many country residents present. The occa ion w s a debate as to the desirableness and practicab’cness, or otherwise, of the ideal state of things predicted in Mr Bellamy’s fa floating book “ Looking Bae! aard.” Me. s s Birrell, Bright, and Walsh were the speakers appointed to take the affirmative on behalf of the Matawhero Society, and Messrs Chrisp, Greenwood, and Williams for the Union Society. There was great enthusiasm throughout the debate; each speaker was warmly applauded as he made a good point, and each of the visitors Sot an ovation as he rose to speak. The lev. Canon Fox occupied the chair, Mr Bright (Matawhero) opened the debate. He began by making reference to the absence of Mr Birrell, who was really the head and front of their column. His being away thns put his side at a great disadvantage, and they must be allowed some consideration on that account. It was through no fault of his that Mr Birrell was away— it was purely on account of illness. Mr Birrell was an old war horse, who dearly loved the fray. The speaker then proceeded to deal with the aubiect of the debate. He confessed that on first reading Bellamy’s book he was appalled with the very vastuses of the subject. He felt in the position at a little child on the seashore, gathering pebbles, with all the mighty ocean before him- He could cull here and there a truth from the book, but still he would have to leave the mighty ocean almost unexplored. The book gives us from 1887 to 2000, in which to work out the problems contained in it, when individualism would be done away with,riches equalised, and want entirely unknown. At first it would seem that there were many apparent impossibilities suggested in the book, but if one were to look back at the past century, he would be very courageous to say that anything would be impossible within the time given. One might be in his office now and, by the aid of the telephone, communicate with other business men miles away, and transact business involving enormous sums] he could nt the cables in motion, and with lightning speed, the world would be encircled I by the aid of large ocean steamers, fa less than two months, they could be guppliod at this part of the world with their requirements. The speaker then referred to ths great work which was being done by machinery, which a few years ago would be thought impossible. Bo that on tbs basis of possibility he thought they nerd only refer to whet had already been aoeompli'bed in a few short years, The next ques ion which was more important was, Is such a state of things as depicted in the book desirable? One would have thought that the Sgst strides which had been made during the past few years, by which the labor of production bad been so greatly lessened, would have Immensely improved the social condition of the people. But what did they eee? They found men and women working long hours for the bares’ means of living, to enable the worker to get feed to enable him to do more work. His friend must not suppose that the change was to be the work of a moment — Mr Bel'amy had given 118 years to work out the details. The tendency of the present ege

in *ll buaireaes and all trades was to concentrate and bee'me huge monopolies. They **» that at lhe p-saent day capital was band big into syndicates and labor into trades pnioae. It it paid them to do that it must pay them to oombine in one vast concern for the benefit of the whole, that the agencies must be placed tinder the control of the State. By this means wars would be averted, the death blow to fierce competition be struck—that competition which had rendered trade one vast battlefield in which workers spent all their energies in availing their fellow workers; energies which, if properly directed, would have enriched them all. Nations wasted their energies in this way, when they might combine themselves together for mutual pasistance, and the good of all. The Speaker said he was going on the assumption that they had all read Mr Bellamy’s book, and could follow him on the points he raised. I According to the state of things indicated, at the age of twenty-four a man would begin the work of life, and at forty-five he would be relieved from all farther State duties, apd so be in a position to devote the remainder of his years to the atndy of arts and sciences, to recreation, or in any other way he thought fit. It had been calculated that 98 per cent of all crimes committed on this earth was traceable directly to distress or want, and if that were removed, what a different state of things there would be. One feature in Mr Bellamy’s book that would please the fair sex, was that in the new condition of things they would have the right to propose—(laughter)—which was made an increasingly necessary thing nowadays by the backwardness of the young men in launching upon the sea of matrimony, which had engulfed go many of those present (Laughter, cheers, and blushes.) Continuing, the speaker said the question that would be pnt by the other ride was, where the ideas contained in the book practicable? Why not? They had only to look round them to see that the principle underlying the book—that the State is to be the sole producing and distributing agent of the world—was being brought into force. They need go no further than New Zealand to show that it waa hot only ■ practicable, but rapidly beccming a fact. He then referred to the liberal land laws of New Zealand. In the old world he saw a pi- turo before him of hundreds of industrious Crofters being: driven from their homes because the freebold of the land had' been acquired by some millionaire or darling of fortune who, daring bis kid glove existence, had not put forth one single effort that could be put under the name of work. It wm asked why he had purchased this freehold at all ? - it was to make one vast deer park for bis friends to boot in. The speaker quoted Carlyle's B. beginning 11 the earth is the mother n! " Why. in this ooontry the State was the t laud owner; It owned ths largest geing poncerr.a in it. the railways; a most direc’ Interference with a private enterprise that had

gnricbad tbopganda In other parts of the world. Yet the opponents of Mr Bellamy Mid that any aneh interference must fail The State wee the proprietor and controlled the poet office, telegraph and telephone departments. ThertWert Socialistic acts to the Jest extreme. Then it controlled a trust office, directly in antagonism to private entetprres; also insurance, the agents o! which -rety often supplied you with papers and figures which yon did not want, (Laugh’er.) The State acknowledged ips interest in'lhe indiviIw and took care to educate the child and give ability every opportunity, What Wronger proof could 'hey want than that which Onder their very roses was coming to pass, and step by step, the State showing its right to control. The book contained a dream within a dream. The seer looks at his paper and Observes details of rice and misery all around him, riches and luxury cn the one hand and poverty on the O’her, but' when he mentioned the poasiU'ity of allMiatlon be was hounded |rcm the place triih cries of madman—as they Bight bpend him out that night, (daughter.) Shay must ‘nmc&iber they were Hot merely djeopsring the matter for recreation and enter talnmrnt—it was a matter of real importance, fhst was rapidly assuming a phase that made an answer necessary. They mutt, by their totes, aay wh.ther they would retard the coniommation of ibis ideal state or would they Mbit, (Obeeis.) Wy heard the preaching in th»ir churches about the love of God gnd the universal brotherhood of man, and if 1W ®p!r r4 !» * t'h’b and not a sham, fbay would welcome the glorious eonaummaH°* when Society wopld no more be In a state of warfare—when the golden era of peace and plenty would dawn, end crime weald be an almost unknown thing. (Cheers.) M r Chrisp (Union Society) said he realised that he had a difficult theme to deal with, and that he was under a great disadvantage |n combatting it, because the thins FM *P popular, The idea was one which peeplc grasped because of its seeming ‘‘mplrei’y. He certainly would not eay the ktate of things depicted was not desirable

1 Of course it was if it was practicable but it was not desirable on account of its being impracticable. Ho did not wonder at Mr Bright being appalled at the vastness of the scheme, and he had no doubt those present would alto be appalled at it. It was not as if he had to deal with any existing fact—it was purely fiction they had to consider, and therefore the negative, must succeed. He contended that, the scheme was ntterly impracticable. He confused that he had to lake tip this subject under great pressure < f time and he had not quite finished the book (laughter); he meant he had not read it through as carefully as he should have liked to have done- he had had to scamp it oyer. He had looked through it for any indication on the one point of all as to how the state of affairs could bo brought ebout, but all he could find was that contained on page thirty seven.

Mr Bright objected to extracts being read from the book.

The Chairman ruled that short extratcs might be read.

Mr Chrisp eaid bis friend had made an effective speech by omitting to read any part of the book. (Ltughter.) Mr Chrisp continuing, ridiculed the idea of the way in which the state of things depicted was to be brought about. For the last 1800 years capital and labor had been at variance, and however they might tegret it he believed it must continue in the future. The scheme was to do away with pauperism and make people happy, which would certainly be desirable, but by the scheme it was not practicable. He dwelt humorously on th l idea of the redistiibution when every man was to share eilik-. There was to be no law of inheritance, and a man came into the world to be eloll ed and fed by the State and went out of it io the same unambitious way. Mr Bellamy did not touch on the land question—he left them to guess that people were to be dispossessed of their property He (Mr Chrisp) asked what would be their fate if, on the plan set out in the book, on.hundred people owning an enormous amount of propei ty were to die at the same time and leaves legacies. Then as to work, the man was not to start until he was twentyone, and from that to twenty four he was to be a Jack of all trades; not till then could be choose a trade, and then it could be just what he pleased. Was it likely any man would like to do hard work ? Why they would all become ba risters and solicitors.

(Laughter.) Mr Bellamy assumed that in the year 2000, human nature would have changed. Was not. human nature the same to day ns it was 1800 years ago? Could a man think as much of a stranger as of a relative? So long as mankind was mankind, he believed an inequality would exist. (Applause.) Mr Greenwood (Union Society) twitted Mr Bright with having done just as the Hook does, ignored the practical difficulties. He did not yield to Mr Bright or anyone in bis detestation of the evils by which they were surrounded, and in his desire that such evils might be mitigated. He claimed for his side that the book showed no way out of those difficulties. Mr Bii, ht had said that 98 per cent, of the crime in the world was due to want, In this county he certainly had not seen many pf such cases—indeed he could not remember a single instance where want was the cause of any crime that had to be dealt with in this di - trict. The crimes had been the result of human passions which could not be eradicated from human nature without the divine aid. At present the arts of war and not the arts of peace took up the greater part of men's energies, but they must fl st overcome the selflshn'-ss of human nature before lhe state of things depicted in the hook could be brought about. But even if such a s>ate were attainable, the race would be a moo'i infeiiir one. It was extremely difficult to argue from the known to the unknown, but at present they knew there was a stimulus for each one to do his beat, a stimulus which did away with indolence. If men were at the age of 45 relieved from all furiher wotk they must find time hang heavily on their hands. There would be the removal of all there conflicts that made us hope for a better woi Id. Would that improve society 1 Ho did mt think it world. They might learn from the classes

that were quite at ease and had no thought for the morrow wbat the eff ot of such ease was. It was not reassuring, for those classes committed all eorts of folly. The speaker amp'ified the points he had raised, and concluded that the scheme was not only impossible, but undesirable. (Applause.)

Mr Walsh (Matawhero) considered it was about time to do something when men came there and sai-i they had not even the courses to try. He held that the scheme was tenable and reasonable. Already they had education by which their children could advance to the fall exten* o' their ab I'ty. With regard to the diatribution ot wealth; when com naries could do that surely a government having the whcle tiding under control could do it ; a vast amount of labor would be saved. They could do away with armies and navies and also with other things, including the lawrets. (Laughter and applause.) So that he did not wonder at the profession being antagonistic to Mr Blight’s line of argument. (Laughter) He (Mr Walsh) was horn in New Zealand, and could remember as far as forty years ago the wonders that were achieved by the Maoris, who were then considered savages, The work they did with their primitive implementa showed what misht be done with the wonderful appliances of the present day, and still there were those who would throw up the sponge and say they could not do it When the Maoris could succeed so well they could not say there was anything untenable in thia book. With the Maoris also the parent was responsible to the tribe for thcare of the child, and if he did not treat it rightly ha was punished accordingly. What were they there that night debating this question fop bnt to distribute as far as they could whatever knowledge th y themselves had sc. quired, Were labor to combine it could produce far more than when each was struggling to outdo the other. In commerce syndicates were formed, not for the benefit of the community but to increase the burden of wealth, for it was a burden on the community and on its successors. Different cargoes were rushed into the one market, and the result was there wasi stagnation. Ffve years ago in New Zealand they were told there were enough stocks in the colony for ten yeqrs to come, Bdlamy’s idea was simply cooperation. At present each one was not striving for the com. munity, but for himself. He believed that it a progressive tax were put on wealth in a few years a manifest improvement would be made. In London there was & great wealth which required protection. Did the wealthy pay for that protection ? Who paid for it if they went to wat ? As an instance of the way in which the wealthy increased their wealth at the expense of the State, he referred to the passing of the Silver Bill in Ameiica. A boom had been created, the silver bought up, and it would be resold to the State at ridiculously high prices. Who made the State ? The laborer. (Applause.) The capitalist bought large tracts of land in this country ; allowed jhs people In it to make roads and railways, which increased the value of the land ; and then he could dispose ot it without having done a thing towards developing it. Progressive taxation was certainly required. Thsre should be a law by which no man should be allowed to come and steal from another, and that was what the capitalist was doing. If the state of things was desirable let nothing shake their confidence in its possibility.; after they h>d seen the progress made during the last fifty years let nothing imaginary deter them from giving thtir sup= port to the scheme, (Applause), The Bev. H. Williams (Union Society) began by qnoting an opinion from the Spectator, that Mr Bellamy’s book was the moat attractive ant} least sensible book written in late years. He supposed that [the debate would have been divided into two dear divisions, and that the affirmative would take upon themselves the attempt to prove that the scheme was practicable. Most of Mr Bright’s speech was occupied in telling them about the desirability of the scheme— little was eaid about its practicability. He had said that England’s present position rested on the pinnacle of being able to manufacture doth cheaper than bther nations, without which power she would fa(l. He was sorry for Mr Bright in the gloomy praansut he held out, He himself frit that England’s national greatness was due to the thoroughness with which Englishmen carried cut anything they undertook, (Applause.) Mr

Bright hafl'referred to various things being in the hands of Government, but he would find a large number of people who would tell him that these affairs were not conducted in the most economical and satisfactory manner. And how were older countries that had not these thing thus controlled fa make a jump from their present state to the state described in Mr Bellamy’s

book ? He talked about amassing wealth into a syndicate until the nation J became one big syndicate, and the trade would be administered by the men who had had practice. He (Mr W.) questioned the justice of the State laying forcible hands on the property of individuals, and then asking them to administer what was once their own. Another thing overlooked entirely by Mr Bright was that a nation required things not produced by itself; and unless all the nations took simultaneous action they could not be self-supporting. He doubted very much whether this could be done in the 113 years allowed. At any rate they should be starting at once if they were going to make any progress at all. Any occupation that proved unattractive was to be made more attractive by shortening the

hours of labor. If they shortened the hours say to half, twice the number of men would be rpqubel. Now h* had gathered local statistics about the butchery trade, which he thought

would ba one of the most unattractive occupations ; in this town he found out there were twenty-five men to a population of 2500, that was one butcher for every hundred persons. Assuming this were considered an unattractive trade and the hours were shortened to half, wo would want one in every fifty instead of in every 100. Then cutting down the time proportionately say to ten minutes, it would take forty eight men thru to do what one butcher does now, and allow two extra men for tinning meats they would have fifty butchers out of every hundred persons. These men could not engage in other trades, and therefore the other fifty men in the hundred must do the whole of the remainder of the work of the nation. (Laughter and applause.) He had read an article wr tten by Mr Bellamy in support of his claim. In the book it was “ from each according to his strength, to each according to his wants.” What ho required f rem each man was that he should do his best; but in ibis article in defence he took up quite a difl rent ground. He found his old position untenable and takes up the ground “ from each equally.” Each man had to do the same amount of work no matter what difference there was in the time he took. The speaker considers! that Mr Bellamy thus must prove his first pori ion to be untenable. Unless begot human nature to alter wonderfully he could not introduce this state of affairs. In such a state there would be a moat dreadful sameness, There would be no difficulties to overcome—the finest of characters had invariably been brought out by surrounding difficulties. There would be no virtue because there was no ’ temptation—virtue was virtue only by contradistinction to vice; crime, they were told, was nearly wholly the result of want and luxury. There were countries where there was little want, such as New Zealand, where men were out on strike, and yet acknowledged they had nothing to complain of. By the scheme the dearest family ties must be weakened, if not removed. Mr Walsh had made reference to tbe success of the Maoris, a reference which he thought was unfortunate for that gentleman’s side, for he was sorry to say the natives had fallen before a nation which had no such condition as Mr Bellamy proposed. The speaker was pressed for time at the finish, aud had to miss much of what he had to say, concluding by rapidly summing up the points. Several other speakers were given an opportunity to say a few words. Mr File warmly supported Bellamy’s scheme. He considered that no weighty argument had been urged against it, and that the leaders on the negative side had not treated the subject with sufficient

seriousness. Mr Crawford also spoke in the affirmative. The s heme was desirable, and ho believed that at the rapid way changes had lately been made, that 113 years would be in reality too long a time. It did not follow that because a man was relieved from or<lina>y toil at the age of 45 that ha would lead a butterfly existence. As to the statement that if life were made too easy they would not want to go to a better world, he pointed out that there were few whn did not even at the present cling to this'world. Mr Greenwood was wrong in assuming that Bellamy’s scheme did not recognise nobility of character. He believed that some apostle would yet arise and build on the fabric laid down by Mr Bellamv, and succeed in a few years in trar eforming ths people into one grand industrial array, Mr Mann agreed as to the desirability, but not as to practicability. They required no demonstration that thin ng were not as good as cnild be wished, and it was unfair tom ke it appear that because one voted against the scheme b?cause of its impracticability that therefore he was against having the condition of things imp'-ovel. Mr File had objected to the leaders in the negative treating the subject lightly, but he did not think they had much to answer. He believed that in the future many imnrovements would be made, but they had to judge lb's scheme simply as scheme, and unless they could change human nature it would not be practicable. Mr Parker said no sneaker had yet referred to the Divine hand in the scheme propounded bv Mr B’llamv. He maintained that it was built on Prophecy and the Gospels, and in a logical and feasible style. He gladly hailed *he day when man would be to man as a b-oth-’r— the golden time when each would do unto the other as be would be done bv.

Mr Bright rose and made a telling reply ■to his opponents, making many witty sallies at tfefr expanse. He turned the’augh against Mr Chrisp by him to go home and read the book through, when he would likely change his opinion. He professed he did nqt understand the line taken up bv Mr Greenwood. and Mr Mann he taunted with having seceded from the ranks of Bellamyism, Hi, opponents, he said, had not faced the anbjsot at alf—tbev had striven to pick out a point here and there, attacking the scheme after a piecemeal fashion, As to Mr Greenwood’s belief about when a man got to be 45 and was relieved from toil, he thought many higher and nobler aims wan’d occupy leisure time than that of allowing Satan to “find some mleohfef still.” (Laughter and applause,) Mr Williams had shown the wefiknMh of his ease by introducing extraneous matter, from which he was careful to quote only that which I suited his own side. (Laughter.) He (Mr Bright) had dealt with the subject broadly—he did not oaro a tmap for details. (Laughter.) The point they had to decide was simply, Should the State have the control of the distributing machinery of the.Oountry ? Qn the vote being taken the affirmative had a majority of about two to one, and the result was enthusiastically cheered.