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Xev. S. Williams 13th Nov., 1877.

. 24. Are there not children of both races in the district, that could be benefitted by an accession of funds to the estate ?—Certainly. 25. Therefore the proceeds from an increased rental could be beneficially used ?—Tes. 26. Are the children in the school children of Natives residing in the vicinity of the school, or of Natives in other parts of the Colony ?—The greater number of the children come from the East Coast. I think there are eight children from the Hawke's Bay district. • 27. Are the children of Natives who gave the land receiving education I —l do not recollect one there just now. We have had three or four, but they left after a short time. 28. What is the reason of that ?—The indifference of the children, and of the parents, as to the advantages of education. I have done all I could possibly do to induce the children to come to the school. 29. Are the means at the disposal of the trustees sufficient to allow of any more children being taken in ?—Wo are full at present; but we shall be able in January, owing to the increase in school accommodation, to take a larger number of children. 30. Have you always given the children of Natives in the district the preference ?—Tes. 31. Mr. Murray] When was this land set apart as an endowment ?—ln 1853 or 1854. 32. Did you then assume the management t —Tes. The endowments were offered as an inducement for me to go to Hawke's Bay and leave the AVest Coast. 33. That is with regard to the Native land. AVhat with respect to the other land?— Sir George Grey made it a condition that I should go to Hawke's Bay. He said he felt very anxious in respect to Hawke's Bay. That there would be a large English population coming into the district, and he was much afraid, unless there was some one to stnnd between the two races, they would come into collision. 34. Did you, in 185 i, receive a grant of £500 from the Bishop of New Zealand for building a residence, and in 1858, £500 with which to buy sheep ?—I have given evidence on this subject four times, and have gone very fully into the accounts, which will be found printed in the Parliamentary papers ; but I cannot at this moment speak to specific amounts. 35. I believe a sum of £2168 was drawn by the trustees, and I want to get at this, whether the balance left over, after paying for the education of the children, is not sufficient to account for the improvements made. I will put it this way—Suppose education cost £1,000, would not the other £1,168 be represented by the improvements?—All that was not spent on the children, was spent on the estate; but I myself spent sums amounting at one time to over £3,000 in improving the estate, and every sixpence has been accounted for. 36. How long did you manage the estate for the trustees'?—Till 1869, when the trustees came to the determination to let it. The trustees then took a valuation of the estate, and gave me the first refusal of it at the price they fixed. 37. Who were the valuators?—Mr. Ormond and Air. Coleman. 38. Was Mr. Coleman personally acquainted with the estate ?—Tes; and Mr. Coleman had previously been the manager of it for me. He was not connected with me at the time. Having managed the estate, he was well aware of its value. 39. What was the amount of the valuation ?—£6oo was named as the outside value. 40. Did you make any conditions about the improvements?—l made the improvements, and reimbursed myself for amounts charged before the estate was let. There is still a small balance due. 41. Can you tell us where we shall find the particulars of those accounts?—Tou will find the early accounts in Air. Henry Russell's report, 1862, and the later accounts will be found in the report of the Royal Commission that was held iv 1869, aud in the report of the Legislative Council, 1875. 42. Do you think any one would have given a higher rent than you did, if the estate had been submitted to public tender?—l do not think so. Every one considered it was an extreme price. 43. AVhat were the improvements you made ?—There has been a quantity of fencing done, a large quantity of grass sown over the estate, and a house built. 44. I have been informed that the estate produces more grass seed than is required to sow the land. I have not been able to find it so myself. 45. Have you ever bought grass seed ?—Tes. 46. There were certain paddocks said to belong to the Church Missionary Society; were they included in your lease!—l1—I believe they were; but had the land been let to any one else, my dwellinghouse and a moderate extent of land would have been included. It is a mistake to speak of any of this property as belonging to the Church Missionary Society. 47. Have you received a grant at any time from the House for the school ?—Money was given pretty regularly for four or five years. Sometimes it came from the Bishop, sometimes from the Education Board. I think all Government money came through the Education Board. 48. The Committee, in 1875, recommended that the land should be placed under some department in the Government. AVhat is your opinion on that point?—l would rather not offer an opinion about it. I may add that since that recommendation was made I have submitted all my accounts to a Government officer—the Commissioner of Stamps, at Napier, who audited them. A few weeks ago they were laid on the table of the Legislative Council by the Hon. Dr. Pollen, who received them from the trustees 49. Ono of the petitioners wishes to have the property cut up into small farms. Do you think that would conduce to a larger rental, and also conduce to further settlement of the population ?—I would rather leave that question to those who are responsible. 50. Some evidence states that the property is worth £35,000, and that the trustees' idea is to give you the land for £1000 a year. Would that not be a very low rate of interest ?—I have never heard of such a thing from the trustees. If they could get £35,000 for the land I should strongly advise them to apply for authority to sell it, and invest the money in some other way. 51. Do you think it would bring £2,850 ?—I should be very glad to hear that any gentleman had given that rental.

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