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for sending in this petition ? —Yes. The reason why the petition has been sent in is about the money and the school, because the money does not go to support the children who went to this school. The school has been up about five years, and it is snid the parents should pay for the tuition of the children for their clothes, and a portion of their food. That is one reason why we sent in our petition. Another reason is that thnt land at Te Aute was given up for school purposes, but it is used for Mr. Wiiliams's own purposes to enable him to make money out of it. These are our principal reasons why we wish Mr. Williams should have nothing to do with the land, and that some other person should be put upon it. 03. Do I understand you to say that the children attending the school are not educated out of the proceeds of the Trust ?—No; the parents have to pay for the schoolmaster and for the children's clothes. 64. How much do they have to pay for schooling ?—£20 a year. G5. Does that include board ? —That is only for tuition. 66. "What do the parents pay for board ?—I do not know. I know they have to pay part of the board and part of the expense of clothing as well as the cost of tuition. 67. Part only ?—Yes, a part. 68. Do I understand you to say that £20 a year is only a portion of the payment that has to be made? —The £20 is exclusive of clothes. 69. You state the children are not maintained out of the proceeds of the Trust. It is desirable to know whether that is so or not. That is why I am asking these questions ? —Yes. The rule is that when a child goes to school £20 per annum is demanded. The Maoris gave up the land for the education of their children. 70. Do you think £20 is sufficient to pay all the expenses connected with the children and for the tuition of the children as well ? —I do not know whether it is or not. 71. When you made your opening statement you did not allege that the Natives regretted having given the land. Do they do so ?—Yes; they are dissatisfied now. 72. Do they wish the conditions of the Trust altered ? Is that one of the objects of the petition ? —Yes. 73. In what way?—In some new way, by which these evil things may be done away with. 74. Have you any children ? —No. 75. Are there children of your tribe attending the school ? —No. 76. Are they in a position to attend ? Do their parents wish that they might attend ? —Yes. 77. Have these parents made application to have their children put into the school ? —Some wish to do so. 78. Have any applications been made to Mr. Williams to admit them ? —They have applied to Mr. Williams, but they are afraid of this arrangement by which they have to pay £20 a year. 79. Has he refused them admission unless that sum is paid ? —I do not know. 80. You do not know whether applications have been made for admission and refused ?—They do not wish to pay the £20. 81. I wish I could get a direct answer to my question. Has any child been refused admission except £20 is paid ?•—He has not refused to admit them, but the £20 must be paid. 82. If the £20 is not paid, does he refuse to admit the children ? —I do not know what is his answer on that point. 83. You have said, or I have understood you to say, that applications had been made for the admission of children and that they had been refused. By whom were the applications made?—Two persons whom I know asked Mr. Williams to allow their children to go to school. He agreed that they were to go, but that the parents were to pay £20 each for the tuition of their children. They were to provide clothing also. 84. Who were they?—Ereatara te Kuru and Hemi Riparipa. 85. Were you present when the application was made and Mr. Williams gave his answer, or are you dependent upon what some one else told you ? —I was there when they sent their children. 86. How long ago was this ?—About three years or four years ago. 87. The persons sending their children did not persist in sending their children when they found they had to pay ? —They agreed to pay the money and the children went to school, but they bolted. 88. How much land was originally given by the Maoris ?—I am not certain. I think about three or four thousand acres. 89. Could you give the Committee any idea of the value of the land at the present time ? —I do not know. 90. If the land were yours, and you were desirous of selling it, what would you take for it per acre ?—30s. or 40s. 91. And if you wished to lease it how much would you take? —Is. or 2s. per acre. 92. Do you know what is the total quantity of land in the estate, including what was given by the Government ? —No. 93. Is the land level ?—It is undulating. 94. What sort of hills? Could the hills be ploughed?—Part of them could be. 95. How much do you suppose could be ploughed—one-half?—I do not think half could be ploughed. 96. I see that, in certain evidence given before a Committee of the Legislative Council in the same petition, you complain of the children being put to manual labour. Is that an objection in your mind? —Yes. I object to children being employed in that way. They were not sent to school to carry buckets of water, to peel potatoes, or to chop wood. They can learn those things anywhere. They are sent to school to obtain knowledge. 97. They cannot be learning books the whole time. Would it be degrading to a child to carry a bucket of water ?—Yes. Parents object to their children being employed in that way. 98. Do you allege that their employment in tiiat way prevented them from obtaining a proper amount of study at their books ? —That is the reason parents took their children away.
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