7

I.—3a.

179. Do you mean that the Maoris dictated it ?—The original was written by the Maoris, and then it was given to Mr. Grace to copy it. 180. Where did Mr. Grace copy it P —At Hapuku's house. 181. Are you quite certain that Mr. Grace did not bring the petition with him from Napier when he came up ?—I do not know of Mr. Grace bringing up the petition from any place. 182. Who wrote the names in English ?—Mr. Grace. 183. Who wrote the original ? —I did. 184. You drew the petition up ? —Yes; I drew it up, and it was consented to by all the people. 185. Did anybody in Napier send up word that this petition was to be got up ? —I know of no words sent up from Napier that this petition was to be got up. 186. Or from Waipukurau ?—No. 187. You said you did not know what the area of this estate was?—Yes. 188. But this petition states what the area is, and you drew up the petition, you say. How did you manage to get those figures into it?—I knew it at the time I drew up the petition, but 1 had forgotten that when I gave evidence the other day. 189. You told us the other day you never had known it ? —I did not recollect the acreage when I was asked the question. 190. Perhaps your memory is not very good ?—A man may forget a good many things. You may forget things, and I may not forget tilings. 191. You say you got this petition signed. Why did Te Hapuku sign his name in two places: once on the last sheet of the petition, and again on the first sheet of names ?—I only saw him sign his name once. 192. Why did he sign twice ? —I did not see him sign at the foot of the petition. It was Eeuata who told me Te Hapuku had signed at the foot of the petition. 193. Did you hear,) before I asked you to-day, that Te Hapuku had signed his name twice ? —Yes. 194. Who told you? —He told me himself. Kenata also told me. 195. I want to know what Mr. Grace did in connection with this petition. Was he very busy about it?—All he did was to put the Maori petition into that writing. 196. Did he make any speech to the Maoris, encouraging them to sign the petition ?—No. 197. How did he come to be there at the meeting ? —He was sent for. 198. Who sent for him ?—Te Hapuku, the person who called the meeting. 199. Why did he not get some Maori to do all the work ?—That is Hapuku's business. 200. Where did you scud to for Mr. Grace—to Mr. Sheehan's office ? —Yes; to Mr. Sheehan's office, at Napier. He has no other place. 201. The Chairman.'] When you wrote the original draft of this petition, did you do it alone, or had you any assistance in doing it?—I had the assistance of Te Hapuku's meeting. Renata, Tareha, and other chiefs were there. 202. In what way was this assistance rendered? Had you the pen and were you writing, and were they making suggestions ?—I had the pen in my hand. 203. How did you ascertain the exact acreage of the land, not only of the Native laud, but of the land granted by the Government ?—It was told to me. 204. By whom ? —By Mr. Grace. 205. Then, Mr. Grace was assisting you to draw up the original petition ?—Mr. Grace was sitting there ; not helping me. 206. Did Mr. Grace assist you in any other way. You admit he assisted you to the extent of giving you the acreage. Did he assist you in any other way ?—No. 207. Did he not suggest to you the proper terms to use ?—No. 208. Do I understand you to say that Mr. Grace subsequently made an exact copy of the draft you had written, and that that copy forms the present petition ? —Yes. This is a copy of the original petition. The original is at Napier. 209. In your handwriting ? —Yes. 210. I want to ask you a question upon another point altogether. It is a very simple question. AVhat were the ages of the children who were put to work, and who were afterwards withdrawn ?— They were of different sizes. Some were almost young men, and somo were children. 211. Were these children withdrawn by their parents, or did they leave of their own accord? Were they sufficiently advanced in years to exercise their own discretion in that way ?—Those who were grown up and sufficiently advanced left of their own accord, but the smaller ones were taken away by their parents. 212. Solely in consequence of their being put to work, which their parents considered objectionable. Was that the sole reason ? —That was the reason. 213. Are you aware whether the same system, which existed in the former school so many years ago, and which you considered so objectionable, continues in the present school ?—The children were doing this work, and they all ran away. 214. Yes. That is not an answer. That is a long time ago ? —At the present school, when put to that work, they ran away. 215. How long ago is that ? —Two or three years ago. 216. Can you give the names of any children who were put to work of that kind within the last two or three years ?—Yes ; I know the names of some. 217. Referring to the printed report of your evidence as given before the Legislative Council, I would draw your attention to question 275, and the answer. It is this: " I would like to know if the witness knows of any Maori boy attending the school who was asked to do any manual labour ?— What I have said does not refer to the school as it is established at present, but as it formerly was." I understand you now give an answer somewhat inconsistent with that. You say you refer to a recent period ?—I was not asked about the children at the present school. I spcfke then about the children at the former school.