G.—2. (Appendix A.)

Te Whiti then said : What is the object of your visit? Mackay : I have come to try and induce you to make a good arrangement with the Government about tho Waimate Plains, so that the present difficulty may be satisfactorily ended. Te Whiti : Why did you not go to the Governor first ? It is the Governor who is obstinate and wants evil to arise ; not I. Mackay : I did not go to the Government. I told you I came here at Blake's request, to aid him in mediating between you and the Government. I, however, asked the permission of Mr. Sheehan to be allowed to come here for that purpose, and he consented. Te Whiti (turning to Blake) : Is that correct, Bhike ? Is not Mackay a Government Commissioner ? He and Barris are the celebrated men whom all the Maoris have heard of. Captain Blake : It is true. I asked Mr. Sheehan to let me come, and for Mackay to assist me. Te Whiti: What I have to say is, that the land is mine ; not that of the Governor. I am the owner of the whole. Tou Europeans do not belong to the country. Mackay : I came from England ; you came from Hawaiki. Tou migrated to this Island; so did we. That is of no consequence. We are both in possession of the Island now, and the Europeans will not leave the country to you. Te Whiti •• The Governor has no claim on the lands this side of Waingongoro. Mackay : The Governor claims the land as confiscated (rau-patu). All the lands from Waitotara to Pouakai were proclaimed in the Gazette. Some pieces within that boundary have been returned to the Natives. Te Whiti: The lands were never conquered. Why did not you occupy them at the time of your conquest? According to Maori custom you should have done so. lam now in occupation: and even if the land had been taken, I, according to the same custom, having been allowed to reoccupy the land, have not lost my rights of ownership. Mackay: Many pieces of land have been proclaimed in the same way as these. Eor instance, Waikato, Tauranga, Opotiki, and Turanganui. The Natives have had to submit to confiscation, and you. are only treated the same way as the rest. Conquest is no new thing in New Zealand. Te Bauparaha obtained lands on both sides of Cook Strait by conquest. Those lands formerly belonged to Ngatiapa, Bangitane, Ngatikahuhunu, Ngatitumata Kokiri; not to Ngatiawa, Ngatitoa, and Ngatitama, the present owners. The lands from Kawhia to the White Cliffs belonged to Ngatitoa and Ngatitama, but are now held by Ngatimaniapoto by right of conquest. There are plenty of examples of Maori custom in that respect. In my opinion, this canoe of yours has fallen asunder; the stern-piece is separated from the bod} r. Tou had better consider the best way of repairing it. Te Whiti : Cease speaking in metaphorical language. Tell me plainly what you want. Mackay : I want you and the Government to come to an amicable arrangement about all the confiscated lands. I fear that if you persist in stopping the survey evil will arise, and I wish to see matters settled quietly. Te Whiti: The land is mine :I do not admit your right to survey it. My blanket is mine: do you think it would be right for you to attempt to drag it from my body and clothe yourself with it? If I tried to tear your coat from your back you would resist me, and you would not be to blame for doing so. What right have Ito forcibly take your coat from you ? Mackay .- Ido not ask you to give your blanket to me, and you remain naked. I say, spread the blanket as you have placed this mat for me, and let you and tho Governor sit down on it in friendship. Te Whiti: That will not do. Tou want to cut my blanket in two. It will be too small for me then. I have already given up enough land to the Governor, and he should be satisfied with all the country he has between Waitotara and Waingongoro. Pull off your trousers; give me one leg and you keep the other. Tou hesitate. Do it at once ; let me have one leg ; you can keep one of your legs in, and we shall walk about together ; do it quickly. Mackay : Well, I would not like to hear you called " one leg " (ivae tahi). People would laugh at you; you had better let me give jrou a whole pair of trousers to yourself, and I keep these. If we each get a leg in, it will be awkward; if I try to walk in one direction and you wish to go in another, the trousers will get torn. The Government will persist in the survey of the land. If you resist, then the trousers will be torn. We had better take the blanket, lay it down, and both sit down quietly on it. Te Whiti : The land is not the property of the Government; it is mine. I told Brown, the Commissioner, to take his guns away. He said he had none there. He misunderstood me ; he thought I meant firearms. The surveyors themselves are the guns; that is, they will cause guns to be used. I do not desire war. All I want is to be allowed to remain at peace on my own land. If you attempt to take the eggs from under a sitting hen she will peck at your hand, and you would not blame her for protecting her young. The eggs are my land. You try to wrongfully steal it from me; I defend it. Tou say lam a murderer. I say it is the Government who are thieves. Mackay : The Governor claims the land through confiscation. He says the eggs are his property. Tou had better try and agree to divide the chickens amicably ; because if the man gels vexed at his hand being pecked, he may take up a stick and knock the hen on the head, and then there can be no further question about the ownership of the eggs. Tou may recollect that after Wiremu Tamehana made peace, he then wanted Parliament to investigate the causes of the Waikato war. This was refused : the people had been killed then, and so had the land ; and no investigation could be made. I therefore urge the settlement of this question now, so that peace may be maintained. If you fight, no investigation or arrangement will take place afterwards. Te Whiti: Ido not know anything about these peace-makings of the Waikato, or of other tribes' doings, and do not care to know. They are a degraded people, and their land is like themselves. I gave up land from Waitotara to Waingongoro under the arrangements with McLean and Parris. That ought to satisfy you. Parris also gave money to the Natives for some of the lands now held by the Government. He returned pieces of land in other places both north and south of this place. Waijnate was untouched, Waingongoro was the boundary. I turned the surveyors off quietly, because

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