G.—2. (Appendix A.)

they had no right on my land. I have made no peace with the Government that they should claim my property. Tou spoke about the good intentions of the Government: tell the Governor not to persist in the survey, and I will sit down peaceably on my land. Ido not go on to your land disturbing you; then why do you interfere with me in the occupation of mine ? Mackay : The King party were the opponents of the Government; it was through their action war originated. The King is the root of opposition to the Europeans. He has made peace and submitted to confiscation. Tou must do likewise. Let us deal with these lands the same as Parris did with the others. Let the Government take some portion and you have another. Some money might also be given to you. Tou had better settle the question in a friendly way ;it will be most advantageous to you. As head of your people you should consider their lives, and not make widows aud orphans of your people. Tou great men, and kings, and governors, are not the actual sufferers ; we, the people, are. The Government do not wish to push matters to extremities. If that was their desire they would not have sanctioned our coming here as mediators. Tou had better give way. If you make concessions, I have no doubt tho Government will also make proposals to you. If you both continue obstinate it can only conie to a bad end. Te Whiti .- Tou know in your mind that I have the right on my side. That is why you came here to try and persuade me to give way. If my people are made widows and orphans by your obstinacy in surveying lands that do not belong to you, why do you not go to the Governor first, and ask him to remain quiet and stop his surveyors ? Ido not want to fight. Leave me in peace on my own land. Tou are the aggressors. If evil arises it will be your fault. Mackay : We say that the lands are confiscated by the law, and therefore consider the Government are willing to give back part to you for Native use and occupation. Tou want the whole, which will not be consented to. Other parts of the district have been arranged in the same manner; and why should this be different from the remainder ? Tou say the Government have not taken possession of the land. The Europeans hold very large portions of the lands of the Taranaki, Ngatiruanui, and Ngarauru Tribes now. The Governor's Proclamation is still in force. Te Whiti: The land is mine : you neither conquered it nor do you occupy it now. Tour survey is wrong, it being without my consent or authority. As you came along, Blake, did you show Mackay the line cut through the cultivations at the door of Titokowaru's house ? Captain Blake : Tes, we saw that. Te Whiti: Where, then, is the piece to be retained by the Natives ? Where are the promises of McLean and Parris that the lands in the occupation of the Natives should not be taken from them ? But for the surveyors being turned off, we should receive no consideration at the hands of the Government. The works of McLean, Parris, and the old Government were different from the acts of Sheehan, Brown, and the new Government. Barris always came and told us his intentions before taking action. I asked Brown to remove his guns. He said he had, but he carries them up to Titokowaru's house. The surveyors were then taken off by us to prevent evil. I did not wish evil to arise; so sent them away. The people might not sit down quietly and submit to their land being surveyed under their feet. Tou say, let me and the Governor sit down on the blanket together. The Governor will not do that; he is dragging it all away for himself. Mackay : It is well that you did not use violence to the surveyors. The Government do not say they will talte all the land. I know they wish to give back pieces to the Natives, and do not think they desire to upset anything done by Sir Donald McLean or Mr. Parris. Tou ought to give way in this matter. The Government will persist in the survey. What is your intention in the matter ? Te Whiti: I have heard that the Government threaten to bring Ngatiporou and other tribes as an army to fight us. We are not afraid of them, as the land is ours. Tou will do us a great wrong, and you ought to be ashamed of it, oppressing a people because they are smaller in number than yourselves. Why do you take the part of Turkey against Bussia ? Suppose some other nation came and took our side, what would you say then ? Mackay : Turkey and Bussia are separate nations. It suits us to take Turkey's part, as our interests are involved. No nation would take your part. New Zealand is under the English Government, and you are considered to be subjects of England. The world docs not deem the Maori to be a separate nationality, but to be a people incorporated with the English nation. Te Whiti: lam referring to the justice of the case. Tou are wrongfully claiming my land. If you persist, and the owners resist you, do not blame them, but yourselves, and your greed to obtain land which is not your property. Mackay: That is the question. Tou say you have a right. I do not say the land was not originally yours : you, however, lost it by confiscation. Tou had better come to fair terms about it. Te Whiti: Are you authorized by the Government to offer me a part of the land, and agree for them to take the other part ? It seems to me that, by the way the surveys have been conducted, you wish to take the whole of the blanket and leave me naked. Mackay : lam not authorized to make you any definite proposal. But any suggestion you make I will convey to the Government, and will support anything that is reasonable. All I desire is, to see a satisfactory settlement. Te Whiti: Tou had better go to the Government and fix their side first. They are the active parties in the matter, not me. lam living quietly on my land. Mackay : I shall communicate what you have said to the Government. The important proceedings of the meeting then ended. In the evening we went to Te Whiti's house, and had a friendly talk on other matters, not connected with tho land question. In the morning Te Whiti came to the house we stopped in, and invited us to his own place. We accompanied him there. He asked if we were going to Taranaki to see Mr. Parris as to the promises he was said to have made, and also to communicate with the Government. Te Whiti said :Do so. Ido not ask you to go. If you two-can do any good, it is well. Mackay replied: We will go; and if there is anything of importance to communicate, we will return to see you.

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