19

I.—2a.

563. Did you ever have any money paid to you at all out of this fund. Did you ever get any benefit from it whatever ?—No, not at all. 564. Then the whole of the money ought still to be in the bank, except the £20 ? —The only money I recognize is £20. 565. And that money ought to have gone to Mr. Gittos, and not to Mr. Sheehan? —That money was not for Mr. Sheehan. 566. Captain Russell.'] Do you consider this £200 cheque a forgery because you have not signed it, or because it is not your handwriting ? —-I never signed a cheque for £200. 567. Do you consider it a forgery because you know it to be a forgery, or because you do not remember signing it ? —I never signed a cheque for £200. 568. In that cheque in which you say the handwriting is not yours, is there any letter that you do not generally make ? —I can see in the last word, " Aututu." There is generally some distinction between these other letters, with a commencement as "tu." 569. Is "AuTutu" two words? Are they removed apart? — The difference I see in the signature to my own is, that the " t's "in my own writing are generally wider apart. [Witness was asked to sign his name, and did so,] 570. Do you mean to say that this deposit receipt was a forgery also ? —No ; I would write my name to it. 571. You said just now that you never write "Aututu" over "Arama Karaka"? —No. 572. Do you always sign your name " Arama Karaka Au Tutu " in full, or do you put the initial letters ? —.No ; I never abbreviate my name. 573. You have never done so ? —No. 574. Then, if you were in a bank, and it was pointed out to you to insert a word, and you found there was no room to insert the words "Arama Karaka Aututu" in full, you might write "Aututu" above ? —I would if there was no room. 575. Then, could you have written your name in full inside the white lines ? —No ; there is not sufficient room. 576. Then, do you not think it is quite possible that " Aututu " might have been written so because there was not room ? —I do not know about that writing. 577. Do you remember every occasion when you signed your name? —Yes. 578. "Would it not be probable that you might have written your name in the year 1874 —now nearly six years ago —and have forgotten the circumstances? —If I had signed I would not forget it; as I did not sign, I cannot remember ever having signed. 579. But would you remember any document you signed six years ago ? —I would not have forgotten though it is six years ago, because I would have known if I had signed a cheque. 580. The Chairman."] Do you remember speaking yesterday of money paid by a person named Jones for the right to cut timber on this land? —I spoke about that yesterday, but I also stated that I did not see the money paid, that I had only heard of it. It was told to me that £200 had been paid; that Te More got £100 and Te Kiri the other £100. 581. Did you not get any portion of the money ?—No. 582. Did you hear from any one that there was money for you on behalf of these children ?—Hori te More told me there was some money in the bank for me, and I told him that I would not take it. 583. Did you ever make inquiry as to whether it was true that there was money in the bank for you on this account ? —No ; I did not go to the bank, or make inquiries. 584. Then you did not know that there was money in the bank for "Wi Apo's children on account of this timber ?—No, I did not. 585. Are you quite sure that you never received any money for these children on account of the timber ? —I never did. 586. Did you ever authorize any one to pay Jones money on account of the money that he had previously paid for the timber? —No, I gave no authority. 587. Did you ever give any money to Mr. Jones to return to the person who had paid for the timber? —No. 588. Did you ever, in any way whatever, authorize Mr. Sheehan to pay money to this man, who had previously paid money for the timber ?—'No. * 589. I want'you to think. Are you quite sure of that?—l could not tell any one to pay the European money when I received none myself. I got no money. 590. On the day that this money was paid into the bank did you give Mr. Sheehan money for any purpose whatever?— No. 591. Did you not give him £50 ?—I did not. 592. Think again. Ido not want to hurry you, because it is an important question ? —I do not know that I gave Mr. Sheehan £50. 593. Are you sure that you did not?— Yes, I am certain. 594. You got £25, and afterwards got £50 for survey. Was that in bank-notes or in gold, or had you any gold with the bank-notes ?—What I got at Mr. Nelson's house was in gold. 595. £25 ? —Yes ; and the other I got in notes. 596. Are you quite sure you got the £25 in gold and the £50 in notes ?—Yes. 597. What did you do with the £25 in gold ? —Did you put it into your pocket or into your pockethandkerchief ? —I put it into a purse. 598. Did you go into any shop while you had that money in your purse ?—No. 599. Did you take the gold home with you ? —Yes. 600. Did any European see the gold after you put it into your purse ? Had you the money in your hand so that any person could see it ? —No. 601. Mr. Boiven.] You say that £900 was the sum t)aid as a first instalment on the purchase to both parties: do you know when the £450 was paid to the other people, or was it at the same time as this transaction ?—lt was on the same day,

Arama KaraVa. Aug. 4, 1880.