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at the same time, supposing that that system could be carried out—which it is not —with complete strictness, it would throw the whole of the country into the hands of the large existing railway companies : do you see any evil in that ?—lnto the hands of the existing railway companies it must and will come. I speak from my own experience. Tho North-Eastern Eailway Company is composed of about thirty-eight small companies which had a separate existence. Whenever we have thought in any of our districts that it was tho right thing to expend money we have expended it; but several other companies—little companies—have from time to time got an independent existence, and as soon as ever they have got fairly completed they have come to us to work them. At the present time we have three such concerns, one of which is being absorbed by the North-Bastern Eailway Company by a Bill passing this year; and communications from the other two companies asking the North-Eastern Company to do something for them have been received. 435. Have not these little companies, before they arrive at an independent existence, either directly or indirectly—either through contractors or otherwise—paid interest upon the unprofitable capital ?—I believe not. I have not positive information upon the subject, but I believe lam right in saying that none of them have. Sir Feancis S. Eeilly, Q.C. (Mr. Speaker's counsel), further examined. 436-7. The Chairman.'] You have a memorandum which you wish to hand in to the Committee ?—Yes [delivering in the same]. 438. Your attention has been called by this Committee to the rather conflicting evidence given by the various witnesses as to the effect of certain Acts of Parliament upon the Standing Order, and what might be the effect if that Standing Order were to be relaxed or repealed. Having looked into the question with great care, the result of your reflection and consideration and examination is that you think there ought to be a general Act of Parliament with regard to the whole question ?— Certainly—at least, upon the whole question so far as it may be considered to be within the four corners of the existing Standing Order ; but whether there should be any legislation upon what may be called collateral questions arising under the Companies Act of 1862 or not I do not make any suggestion. In short, I should wish to confine my observations as regards a Bill to the effect of the Companies Clauses Consolidation Act of 1845, on which this Standing Order bears directly, and with which Eailway Bills and Acts alone are concerned, as a rule. 439. Have you anything else to add to the evidence which you gave to the Committee on the former occasion ?—I have not. 440. Mr. Brand.~\ I would like to put a question which I put to the last witness with respect to the Eailway Construction Facilities Act—whether railway companies have or have not power under that Act to pay interest out of capital ?—ln some cases they have not; in some they may have. If the company are incorporated by a certificate of the Board of Trade, granted under the Act, they are prohibited by that Act from paying interest out of capital, except on sums in advance of calls. But if a company, having incorporated themselves under "The Companies Act, 1862," come to the Board of Trade, under the Facilities Act of 1864, for railway powers simply, not seeking fresh incorporation under that Act, they are left by that Act free to make any such arrangements about capital and interest as the law which applies to them, irrespectively of that Act, may admit, and as they may think fit. 441. The Chairman.] So that, whilst the intention of Standing Order 167, and that of the Act to which you have referred, is clear, it seems that there are means and modes of evading them both ? —Yes; I suppose I may say so as regards the Standing Order. Long before this question was raised, I think I may say that I have always understood professionally that those devices existed and operated to a great extent, particularly when they were put into operation through the medium of contractors. But, in the case of the Facilities Act, payment of interest out of capital is not necessarily an evasion : that Act leaves the matter open as to companies not incorporated under it. Mr. Eichaed Withers examined. 442. The Chairman.'] You are the chairman of the Liverpool Stock Exchange, are you not?— Yes, I am. 443. You are aware of the question which has been referred to this Committee, with regard to which very full and very fair evidence has been given on both sides: is there any statement which you wish to make to the Committee with respect to any point "which has been omitted, or with respect to your own opinion on the matter ?—I should like to give my own opinion upon the matter, based upon my experience of forty-six years in railway matters, and for a large portion of that period as chairman of the Liverpool Stock Exchange, and for the whole of that period in connection with railway business ; and particularly my recollection of the state of things out of which this Standing Order which is sought now to be repealed by certain parties was instituted. In 1845 —a period of great excitement and speculation, particularly in the railway world, followed by legislation in 1846 of a very wide and large character in re Eailway Bills—the Committee of the Stock Exchange, foreseeing the commercial disadvantage that might arise by the large commitments to which individuals were then binding themselves under application to Parliament, sent a deputation, of which I happened to be one at that period, to the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, with a view to bring before him the various schemes before Parliament, which were far too numerous in our opinion to be safely carried, and likely to very seriously influence the moneymarket unfavourably when carried, and thereby to react upon the trade of the country. We went to see Sir Charles Wood with that object; but he threw off all responsibility upon the matter as Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he said people must take care of themselves, and he said that we had better go and see the railway chairmen, Mr. Glynn, of the London and North-Western, Mr. Hudson, of the various lines of which he was chairman, Mr. Denison, of the Great Northern,