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1171. Are you one of those who had to lease land from Europeans because you have not sufficient land left ? —Yes. 1172. Are these documents [handed in] connected with the leases of certain land which you hold from Europeans ?—Yes. 1173. Mr. Peacock.] Do you mean that these were lands leased back from Europeans to him— part of the lands that had been under the administration of the Public Trustee, and leased by him to the same European ?—Yes. 1174. Why have the Natives leased these lands from the Europeans?— Because we had no land to cultivate and put in crop to secure a living for ourselves. 1175. Where are these lands situated ? —Okaiawa. 1176. You say you are not satisfied with the administration of the Public Trustee : on what grounds are you not satisfied ?—The objection I had was because I wished the land to be returned to ourselves—that we might have the management of it ourselves. 1177. Do you think you are capable of managing it yourselves?—We would leave it to the management of a committee. 1178. In leases of reserve lands of which there are more than twenty grantees, would you leave it to a committee ?—We wish to leave all the lands belonging to us to the management of a committee. 1179. Are these the only reasons why you are not satisfied —because you have not enough land for yourselves, and because you wish for the management of the land yourselves ?—The objection I made was that the Trustee did not come to let us know what portion of the land he was going to lease. He leased the land, but we heard nothing about it. 1180. Are you or your people satisfied with the present division of interests ?—There are some who approve of it; others do not. 1181. Mr. Peacock.] Do you approve?— Yes; I approve of the division that was made. 1182. Mr. Sinclair.] Is that a general ground of dissatisfaction, or is it only on the part of a few? —It is a ground of dissatisfaction with a great number of them. 1183. Is it your wish that the Native Land Court should have power to alter these divisions? —I have already said that a great number of our people disapproved of them. 1184. Do you mean Mr. Rennell's subdivision?— Yes. 1185. Do your people object to the Native Land Court ascertaining the interests, shares, or partitioning the land at all ?—The majority of our people wish the land to be left in one block, and not subdivided. 1186. You object to the shares being ascertained ?—Yes ; I have said so. 1187. Mr. Bennett.] What was the objection that the Natives had to Major Kemp as an arbitrator for them ?—lt was I personally who objected. What I objected to was a lease being granted for thirty years. 1188. Did the Natives not object specially to Kemp because he had been fighting against them ? —I told Kemp that we did not approve of an extension of the lease for thirty years. Some of the people might have feeling against Kemp, but that was not in my case. Some might have feelings, but others not. 1189. Is is not the fact that the people of Ruatomoko refused to have any but a European, saying, " We will have any European you please " ?—No; none of them said so. 1190. Did you not hear that the Natives met at Normanby, and sent a telegram to that effect to the Government ?—No ; our party produced a letter before the arbitrator, saying that we objected to the arbitration. Possibly that letter might have been forwarded to the Government, but Ido not know. 1191. Do you know how many acres Mr. Mackay reserved for you?— No. 1192. Do you know the total amount of the grant?— No. 1193. Do you know the size of the reserve you live on ?—I could not tell you how many acres, although I know the size. 1194. You have leased the land to Europeans : why did you not cultivate your own land ?—We have cultivated it—l mean the whole tribe—but there is not enough. 1195. There are 700 acres reserved for you : is it in grass, or what ?—Yes ; it is all in grass. 1196. Were you there when I defined the interest of the hapus : were you present ?—We never heard of you subdividing that block of land. 1197. I asked you whether you were present ?—No ; I was not present. 1198. Do you state that you were not present, and that you did not assist me ?—No ; I was not present. 1199. You say that some of the Natives objected to my definition of the interests : why do you not make an appeal to the Native Land Court, and make a practical effort to get it repealed?—We objected to the division of our interests by you. 1200. You mean generally ; not any special division ?—Yes ; for my own division also. 1201. Mr. Peacock.] You were asked why you did not appeal to the Native Land Court: you have not answered that question at all ?—We made our objection to Mr. Rennell because he did not send us word informing us w 7 hat he was going to do. 1202. Hon. the Chairman.] Do you understand the question ?—That is a very right question to put. The objection we had to Rennell was because he did not send us word before it was done. 1203. Mr. Bennett.] Do you recollect a Native Land Court held at Hawera, presided over by Judge Puckey, and held within the last few months ?—Yes ; I knew of that Court sitting. 1204. Do you know that Karere and his son applied for a subdivision of this land?— Yes. 1205. Do you know that it was made so unpleasant for Karere and his son that they had to give up their application ?—Yes ; I recollect the whole of the Maoris objected to it. 1206. Then, you all objected to the Native Land Court touching this land?— Yes.