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but I think it is improbable. [Stiletto and paper-collar produced.] Of course there may have been 150 fingers put into this hole. 69. Mr. Gully.'] You have not seen that done ? —No. It seems to me that, if you stab straight in, the cut depends on how you pull the stiletto out. It depends on the slightest turn of the wrist in pulling the stiletto out. 70. Mr. E. M. Smith.] Are you aware that a bayonet or dagger inserted into a man with force could not be removed without it was rolled about, or straight. It could not be pulled out without a motion that would cause a jagged hole. Has not that been proved over and over again in warfare ? All soldiers are taught, in making a cut with a bayonet, to give it a twist motion, in order that it may come back clear ?—Yes, Sir, that is so. I was trying to explain that to the Committee, and my reason for stating what I did about the 150 turns, the matter was so talked about, and I was told, when these things were handed over to me, they were very different to what they were when the experiments were first made. 71. The Chairman.] Looking at that dagger, do you think the force required to drive it in would have taken it above the thick part near the handle ? And it shows, at any rate, that it was a partly-blunt instrument that had been in the wound, or through the clothes ?—The only thing is that stabbing might have been done after the man was dead. Mr Jellicoe.] That has been my idea all along. Witness : He might put the dagger into the wound as far as he liked. 72. The Chairman.] In your experience have you ever seen any one murdered by a foreigner with a dagger of this kind or any similar weapon ? —No. 73. Do you know as a fact that most murders committed in that way are generally done with one or two fatal stabs—not a great number ? —I have seen a good many men murdered in India by Afghans by long knives—large knives. They never stab more than once. 74. Mr. Gully.] Of course, you cannot lay down general rules for assassination ?—No. 75. Mr. Allen.] You have seen that finely-cut mark in the collar. Now this dagger, as you see, is edged on both sides. In your experiments would it be possible that that stiletto could make that fine cut ?—Well, I do not know that I could answer from my experiments, but my own ideas are no, it could not. 76. Mr. Lake.] In answer to Mr. Moore, as regards the same point, you gave the distance as sft. or 6ft., instead of 5 yards or 6 yards as in answer to me. Which do you mean ?—I said, No to your question; you asked me about yards, Mr. Moore asked me about feet. 77. You stated that at a distance of sft. or 6ft. or over the paper would not be carried into the wound ?—Yes. 78. I then asked you if at that distance so large a hole could have been made in the back of the coat at this sft. or 6ft. ? —Yes. 79. And I understood you to say, Yes ? —Yes. 80. Mr. E. M. Smith.] You are aware that in a pair of horse-pistols the usual charge would be something one-half of what you put in a gun ?—Yes ; two drachms of powder probably instead of three. 81. The point I wish to get at is—would there be less initial velocity ?—Yes. 82. And, therefore, that the shot would begin to scatter sooner ? —Yes. 83. Mr. Moore.] I am not quite clear whether you led the Committee to believe some time ago that the experiments you made were of such a nature that your conclusions could not be considered reliable ?—Yes; they were the best I could make under the circumstances. 84. The Chairman.] Do you mean that the experiments you made did not justify you in believing it was a horse-pistol that was used—is that what you mean 2—No. 85. Mr. Moore.] I wish to make it clear to the Committee whether you considered the experiments made were of any use Ija forming an opinion as to what gun or pistol had been fired ?—No ; I do not consider them of any value. Mr. Jellicoe: It may perhaps be convenient, and save the time of the Committee, if I now direct attention to some portions of Dr. Cahill's evidence, given before the Coroner. He says, " Coming into Wellington, I reported the matter to Sergeant-major Morice, to whom I communicated my suspicions." Almost at the end of his evidence, having described the wounds in the body, ho says, "It must have been an exceedingly strong instrument, and driven with great force, as shown by the clean cuts made through the bony processes of the vertebrae and the fracture of the lower jaw. From the appearance of the small ragged round hole in the right front of the coat, and the long ragged tear in the left corner and pocket of the coat, I am inclined to believe that these tears were caused by a rounded missile like a spherical bullet fired from above. If a bullet so fired passed through the coat and vest and struck such a thing as a knife in a man's pocket, it would make such a tear, and a bruise over the left hypochondriac region corresponds to the position of the waistcoat-pocket in which the knife appears to have been. The shot fired from behind which entered the shoulder must have been fired when both parties were about on a level, and when the distance from the muzzle of the weapon and the back of the deceased was only about 2 yards. I have preserved the mass of clotted blood, and papers, and all pellets of shot extracted. I now produce them." So that the mass taken from the wound was produced at the inquest, and this some days before the paper was extracted. There are one or two other points in the depositions taken in the Eesident Magistrate's Court, and which appear among the printed papers. Eeferring to Chemis's statement, and the motive suggested by the Crown for the murder, Mr. Cooper, Registrar of the Supreme Court, says, "Judgment was reserved for further argument and consideration. Trial was first commenced on the 15th January, and concluded on the 19th January." That was the position of the litigation between Hawkins versus Chemis. Dr. Cahill, under examination, says "There was a large ragged wound on the back of the left shoulder, above the angle of the scapula, or shoulder-blade, close to the spine. It ran forwards through the muscles for 3Jin., and was directed slightly upwards and outwards. It contained clotted blood, torn and s—l. Iβ.