135

H.—2

62. Is there any permanently-appointed chairman ?—No; it is a small affair from beginning to end. It is a matter between employer and employe, and, so far as lam concerned, I think it is a very good affair too. You get a good percentage for the little you pay in. 63. Therefore you will keep the club going?— Certainly. William Smith was examined on oath. 64. The Chairman.] What is your business ?—I am an employe in Ward and Co.'s brewery. 65. You have heard the evidence given by Mr. Gimmell ?—Yes. 66. Do you fully agree with it ?—Yes. John Leader was examined on oath. 67. The Chairman.] What are you ?—An in Ward and Co.'s brewery. 68. You have heard the evidence given by Mr. Gimmell? —Yes. 69. Do you fully agree with it ? —Yes. John Sullivan was examined on oath. 70. What is your occupation?—l am a lumper at Lyttelton. 71. Do you know of a society called the Lyttelton Lumpers' and Wharf-labourers' Association ? —I am secretary of it. 72. Have you held that office long?— Twelve months. 73. Can you tell us how long that society has been in existence ?—Something over six years. 74. Have you got a copy of the rules of the society? —Yes [Exhibit 37]. 75. How many persons, can you tell us, are there generally working in or about this association ? Do they vary very much ?—Yes; some days there may be twenty, some a hundred and twenty, and sometimes two hundred 76. How many members has your association ? What is the membership ?—About two hundred. 77. And it is impossible, by these rules, for any person to get work there without belonging to this association ? —No ; plenty get work outside the association. When all the association men are working, then' anybody who comes along gets work. 78. If your two hundred members are all in full employment, then anybody else can get work? —Yes. 79. Eule 35 says, " All labour to be engaged at the breastwork, by the shelter-shed. No member shall take the lines or go alongside any steamboat or ship seeking employment at any time unless ordered to do so by the employer." Does that mean you are not allowed to work without being ordered by the employer to do so?— Yes. 80. And Eule 16 says, " Every member shall pay " : now, what is the meaning of " shall"— that if he does not pay he is not allowed to work until all the members of your association have work ? —We do not strictly adhere to the rules like that. We do not make them unfinancial unless they are really twelve months in arrears—that is 165., our contribution being Is. 4d. The rule says you are unfinancial after two months, but we do not adhere to that rule ; we give them twelve months. 81. Has there been any amendment to that effect?— No. We have several working all the time who are perhaps six or seven months behind in their contributions. We do not stick to a hard-and-fast rule. 82. Still, no one can work at lumping on the wharves unless he is a member of this society? —Nobody can work while members of the society are available. 83. When the Canterbury Stevedoring Association paid £100 at the start they further promised to supplement it from time to time : have they done so ? —Yes, every year. Last year they gave us £25, and in previous years I believe it was £25 and £50 ; but I was only in office last year, and so cannot tell. 84. Have you brought a balance-sheet?— Yes [Exhibit 38]. 85. Mr. Fisher.] In whose name is the money banked ?—The secretary, treasurer, and trustee —three members. 86. Who is the trustee ? —A chap named Slater, who used to be fireman on the wharf. No cheques can be drawn without the three signatures. The employers have nothing whatever to do with the funds, good or bad. 87. The Chairman.] Does this balance-sheet resemble in any way the balances of previous years?— Something similar to that. The funds never accumulate very much. The bank-book shows there is £67 at the present time. 88. Have you heard any grumbling amongst the men working there as to this society?—l have heard grumbling outside, not among the members of the association themselves. Now, before we came up we were almost unanimous in keeping the association as it is; we do not want it interfered with —not the men belonging to the association. They think the association is going along on very nice quiet lines at present, and that was the unanimous wish to-day. They seemed to be all pretty satisfied. 89. Mr. Fisher.] Does this association monopolize or control the stevedoring labour of the port ?—lt does to a certain extent, because all the members who work at the shipping belong to the association. 90. The Chairman.] All the men who work on the wharves belong to this association ?—Not all the men. We have a committee and chairman of our own ; we never meet the " upper " people at all —perhaps once in two years. They do not interfere with our funds, and we carry on our business apart from them. 91. Does it not mean that if a man wants work he must belong to your association? —Not at all