E.—3b

27

9. Did you find them ?—No, not then. We passed through the dormitory, then we turned back and came to two rows of doors on both sides of the building. The Chairman asked what was inside these rooms. The Brother said they were private rooms and storerooms. " That one," pointing to a particular one, "is my photographic-room," he said. The Chairman asked, "Can we see inside these rooms?" And the Brother replied, "No, you cannot. Brother Loetus is in town with the keys." 10. Did you go down then to the yard? —The Chairman spoke about the keys being absent, and asked whether any boys were confined up there. The Brother replied, " No." After a little time I put almost the same question in this form: " Were there never any boys locked up there He said, " There are no boys locked up here. We never lock them up. There is no place for it." We then went downstairs, and I proceeded to go to where Mr. Harley and Mr. Heyward were examining the boys. The Chairman followed pretty close behind. After looking at the boys carefully myself, the Chairman tapped me on the shoulder and said, " Come this way." I went with him towards the entrance from the back of the building. He looked up and said, " You see that up there, those bars across the window ? " I looked up and saw them. I called Brother Augustine and asked, " What do those bars mean ? " He said, " That is my photographic-room that I told you of." I then said, " What do you want bars for photographic windows for?" He said, "To keep the boys out." I said, "The boys cannot get up there." He said, "Oh, there are ladders about. I will show you the room." I called Mr. Harley, and we all went up together with Brother Augustine. We proceeded to the photographic-room. There was a camera there, and a few photographic materials about. I did not see any shelves about it. 11. What had the room the appearance of being made for? Well, I should say, a cell. I should fancy a dark cell, too. The Chairman then pressed Brother Augustine aboutboys being confined, and after a great deal of pressing he admitted that there were two boys in a cell up there. 12. Did he point out where the cell was? —Yes, he pointed out the room, which was upstairs. 13. Did he tell you there were two boys in a room there ?—Yes : not the photographic room, but another room on the opposite side—what is called the " tower room," I suppose. The Chairman asked again for the keys, and Brother Augustine again replied, " I cannot give them to you ; Brother Loetus has got them in town." The Chairman sent the Believing Officer to the room to call out. He called out, and there was no response. Brother Augustine remarked, "Itis no use. There is another door between ; they can't hear." Mr. Harley asked him whether they had the two boys locked up separately. He said, " No." I said, " This is a very serious matter. The boys might die, and nobody hear anything about it; or the place might catch fire, and the boys mi«ht be burned to death." He replied, "We are very careful of fire." I said, " I have no doubt; but one may occur." I said I thought the question of fire very important, as the keys were in town. As we were passing along the corridor I said, " I might just as well say that it is said a boy has been looked up here for four months." 14. Did you name the boy? —No, Ido not think I did. Brother Augustine replied, "No ; not so long as that. Two months." 15. Was it stated then, or at any time during the visit, who this boy was ?—lt was stated to be Skilton. We talked about the matter, and we thought we had better go out the next day. We went downstairs, where the boys were at dinner. The Chairman and Mr. Heyward stood at the door, while I and Mr. Harley passed in and out among the tables. We saw the food—what has been termed " Irish stew." . 16. Did you notice what it consisted of?— Yes; potatoes and a httlejait of meat, lhere were no vegetables in it. It is what I should call on board ship, " lobscouse," with a very small bit of meat. . 17. What was the appearance of it? Was it appetising?— Not at all. The surroundings would make me sick looking at them. 18. Was there a cloth on the table?— Yes; some cover; it was very dirty. 19. Did you taste the food ? —No ; I could not face it. 20. What was the colour of it ?—Well, a darkish colour. 21. Did it look like what potatoes properly peeled and boiled should turn out ?—No. Potatoes treated'properly should be perfectly white. The potatoes were mashed. They were not in their jackets. . . 22. Was the meat in large or small quantities ?—Very small quantities. 23.' You went in the yard to see the children ?—Yes. There was a great number of them. 24. Did you take notice of their clothes ?—Yes; very closely. They were very illclad. I doubt very much whether you could pick up such a lot in the gutters of London. They had feet out at toes, and hair through their hats. 25. Mr. Wardell] Can you speak from experience of London ?—Yes. I say these ooys could hardly be beaten for the state of their clothes by boys picked up in London. You might get one or two children worse clad in London, but you would not get a mob together like that. 26. What do you consider about the clothing as regards warmth?—lt could not keep them 27. Mr. Harley.] Had the boys anything under their cotton shirts?—l could not see that they had anything. Some were very bare. Some of them, at least, had no undershirts. They were very ill-clothed indeed. , 28. The visitors then went away, leaving a message that they would come back next day I— Yes. We had not gone far when we met Brother Loetus. We then turned back with him. The Chairman had a conversation with him, and we were taken upstairs. 29. Was there any hesitation ?—Brother Loetus seemed to be trembling, and took a long time to get off his overcoat. He said the rooms referred to were private rooms. Then I out with it and said, " We have been informed that boys are locked up here,"