9

E.—l4

60. Is it a fact that it is a more liberal staff, very much more so, than is given in Victoria ?— Yes ; but it is a question of money, and the point is in which direction the money shall be spent: some of it must go towards strengthening the staff. I hold that when you come to the question of giving assistance you have to consider what form that assistance should take. My opinion is that it should certainly take the form of a certificated teacher. 61. Your suggested staff for a school between 76 and 100 is headmaster, female assistant, and pupil-teacher ? —Yes. 62. I know it is fact that until recently the number placed under a headmaster and mistress in Otago might be as many as 110, and' that only recently the Education Board lowered the number to 100?— I may say that the experience of the teacher is not the only thing to be taken into consideration. The question of the number of pupils to be allotted to each teacher has been discussed and tested in Germany, America, and England. It ought not to be more, in the easiest circumstances, than between 30 and 40 per teacher. 63. I should like to know, if you would give it me, the staffing for a school of 420 to 480 in your suggested scheme ?—Headmaster, fixed minimum salary, £301; infant mistress, £140. 64. And the number of male assistants ?—As few as you like ; there need not be any at all; you may have all females if you like. 65. You do not provide for a distribution of the sexes ?—We say that you need not have any male assistants at all if you like—that is, according to this scale. 66. You need not have any male assistants on the staff?—No, except the headmaster; the matter is left to the discretion of the Boards. 67. Will you kindly tell me how many male teachers it is possible to have if the Board thinks fit?— You cannot have more than three male assistants, if the Board chooses to appoint them. 68. How many female assistants?— Three, including the headmistress. 69. And pupil-teachers ?—Five pupil-teachers. 70. In such a school as that, what would be the number in the infant-room : would there be 145 children ?—The average number in the preparatory classes would be about a quarter—that is, if there were 420 in the school there would only be 105. 71. We will suppose there are 120 : an infant mistress and two pupil-teachers might very well manage that department: is that not so ?—No ; two adult mistresses and two pupil-teachers would be the proper staff. 72. What is the salary allotted to the first assistant master in that grade of schools ?—£l9o. 73. At present in such a school in Otago he receives from £210 to £220?— Yes. 74. Any first assistant in a school over 450 would lose £30 a year ?—Yes. 75. And the second male assistant in that school would get ?—£loo. 76. You said it was possible to have three male assistants in such a school: what would the third male receive ?—£Bo. 77. Do you think that £80 is not very much too low a minimum for a certificated male teacher ? —For the reasons I gave before you should begin both male and female at the same minimum salary. 78. Is it not a fact that in Otago even the present scale of salary is much more liberal than this ? —Not more liberal up to 35. 79. What is your opinion on the importance of the position of the first male assistant ?—The first male assistant is paid a higher salary than the others because he has to take the headmaster's place when he may be absent; he has to act as lieutenant. It is a good salary, if you leave Otago out of the question. In Otago they have a larger number of pupils per teacher than anywhere else in the colony. My opinion is, if you increase the number of pupils per teacher —an opinion I hold strongly, and for psychological reasons—you make the work more mechanical, and therefore destroy the value of the training. 80. If it were pointed out to you by the Inspectors, who have been in Otago for a large number of years, that this staff —one headmaster, three male assistants, three female assistants, and five pupil-teachers —was somewhat more liberal than the present, and that such a school could be worked very satisfactorily with three pupil-teachers instead of five—it would be precisely your staff as far as the assistants were concerned, but with fewer pupil-teachers ?—Then I should say put on another female assistant. Of course, if that opinion were expressed to me I should respect it as the experience of men who had been working for a long time; but I should certainly not agree with it. 81. Suppose we try 600 to 660: could you give me the staff?— Headmaster, three male assistants. 82. Not more than three?—No; three. There must be a majority of female teachers on the staff. 83. How many females, including mistress? —Five. 84. And pupil-teachers ? —Seven. 85. The total number would be sixteen ? —Yes, with an average of nearly forty pupils each. South Australia is nearly the same. 86. Would it not be a stronger staff with, say, headmaster, six females, three males, and five pupil-teachers ?—You might change two pupil-teachers for one adult: that would depend on the way you organized the school. 87. Taking from 420 to 460 —I omitted to take the number of males—there would be headmaster, three males, three females, and five pupil-teachers, a total of twelve : is that so ?—There cannot be more than two male assistants there. 88. There is no school in New Zealand, or very few indeed, where the sexes are separated ?— There are not very many. 89. The first male assistant would take the Sixth Standard? —Generally speaking, yes. 2—E. 14.