I.—lb.

18

F. B. MABIN.

142. You have heaps of men who are as competent as Captain Clark? —I did not say " heaps." 143. But you said you had a number of such men, although General Babington said thai ''aptain Clark was the most qualified man ? —There are some men who have done the work. 144. Eight Hon. the Minister of Defence (to Lieutenant Gardiner).] You are in the service of the New Zealand Government? —No, in the Imperial Pay Branch. 145. You are connected with the Pay Office? —Yes, for the whole of the contingents. 146. You have had military experience? —Yes. 147. You know the work of compiling the rolls, and so on I I do. 148. Giving an impartial opinion on the subject, do you know whether there is any one competent to do that work who is receiving 10s. or 12s. a day? —I dare say it could be done for that. 149. Are there officers in the employ of the Department competent to do the work?- Yes. there are. 150. What are they receiving? —10s. and 10s. 6d. a day. 151. And they have had knowledge of the rolls and experience with the contingents? —Yes and have been actually with the contingents. 152. And would have done it for 10s. a day? —Yes, 10s. or 10s. 6d. 153. Mr. Hall (to Lieutenant Gardiner).] Have you any knowledge as to whether any othe'' officers similarly employed to Captain Clark have received full officer's pay? -When the contingents returned the officer who had the best knowledge of the men was generally detailed to finish up the work, and for that work he received the pay of his rank. 154. And they have not received any further pay for that? —No; they receive, of course, the New Zealand furlough. 155. Eight Hon. the Minister of Defence (to Mr. Mabin).] Who does this work at Home?A " Tommy," at a shilling a day, 156. What would he get? —A shilling or Is. 2d. 157. Mr. E. McKenzie.] You say that a " Tommy " does the work of compiling the medal rolls? —The clerical work is done at Home by the Tommies. Of course, purely the military work. 158. What do the officers do while this is going on? —An officer would supervise. 159. Eight Hon. the Minister of Defence (to Mr. Butler, Chief Clerk, Military Branch of the Department).] Do you know the work which was done by Captain Clark in the compilation of the rolls, and so on? —I know the description of the work he did. 160. What is the value of the work done, from your standpoint? The medal-rolls and the work he was doing after squaring-up the contingents would be worth from £3 to £4 a weekabout £3 10s. 161. That you consider would be a fair remuneration 1— Yes. 162. You are Chief Clerk in your Department? —Yes. 163. What do you receive? —Two hundred pounds a year; but, of course, I have had twelve years' experience in the Government service, and have gone up gradually in salary. 164. So that in offering Captain Clark the same money that you are receiving, you think he was fairly paid? —Yes. 165. Captain Clark (to Mr. Mabin).] I would like to ask you what military experience you have had ? —I was paymaster of the Tenth Contingent. 166. You would have had a large experience of the Tenth Contingent while going out? —I would have sufficient knowledge in going out with the Tenth Contingent to know what was necessary. 167. You say that there are some officers working for 10s. a day who could have done the work? —Some of them. 168. Do you know the declaration which is at the bottom of the King's Medal Roll? —1 have seen it. 169. What is it? —It is a declaration which has to be certified to by the officer. 170. And he has to be cognisant of the services of the men and officers receiving the medal ? Yes. 171. Do you not think that is an important thing? —Yes, I do. 172. Can you say that those going out with the Tenth Contingent could have personal knowledge of those who went before them ? —The question asked was whether there were any men in my office who could do the work. T referred particularly to Lieutenant Gardiner, who is quite capable of doing it. 173. But personal knowledge of the men's services is the great thing required in compiling the medal-roll? —Yes; but were you the only one available? 174. You think that going out in the Tenth Contingent would have enabled a man to do the work, and that he could have certified to the officers and men of the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh. Eighth, and Ninth Contingents? —Yes: I would use common-sense, and if I had had the nominal rolls, &c, I could have done it. 175. Mr. R. McKenzie.] What is implied by "personal knowledge"? —It is certainly a great advantage to know the men and little details in connection with them : but if you have the nominal rolls and records in front of you it is plain sailing. 176. Captain Clark wants to make out that personal knowledge is necessary. Do you require to know anything further than the records of the men while they are in service? What do you depend upon? —I appeal to the records. 177. You do not appeal to the captain's memory? Is there anything required beyond what is on the records? —No. 178. Eight Hon. the Minister of Defence (to Lieutenant Gardiner).] What were you doing when this work was being done by Captain Clark? —I was out of employment. 179. Did you know more of the contingents than Captain Clark? —I reckon I knew equally as much, and had no trouble in doing the medal-rolls,