19

I.—IB.

¥: B. MABIN.

180. What contingent did you go away in? —The Fourth. 181. What contingent did Clark go away in? —The Second. 182. And you are satisfied that you could have done this work? —Quite. 183. Have you had experience of similar work? —Yes. I was a soldier in the First Dragoon Guards, and was doing similar work at Home for Is. 4d. a day, subject to deductions. 184. Then, you would say, Lieutenant Gardiner, that there were others who could have done this work equally well with Captain Clark ? —There are any amount of them knocking about. 185. And yet General Babington has placed it on record that Captain Clark was the only officer available who was competent to do the work? —He was not aware of the personnel of the other officers who were equally able to do the work. He had not then sufficient knowledge of the officers and men in the contingents. 186. Is it necessary to have personal knowledge of the officers and men in the compilation of these rolls? —It is not absolutely necessary, but it is of very great assistance. In preparing the rolls, the regimental records ought to show everything. You have the records, and the rolls should be compiled from them. 187. I suppose it relieves your conscience when you come to make that solemn declaration, if you have personal knowledge of those to whom it refers? —Yes, it does. I had to compile the rolls for the Fourth and Fifth Contingents. 188. If a man was wounded and was entitled to a medal, would your personal knowledge have any effect unless there was some record of the occurrence? —It would in some cases. In the Transvaal we lost all our documents. A man was wounded whilst I was present. The record lias since been lost, and my personal knowledge was the only means of verifying his right to the medal. 189. Then, you attempted to make up a report after the loss of those papers? —Yes. 190. Would that be available although the Boers had captured the actual papers? —Yes. A board of inquiry would be held concerning the loss, and the proceedings would go Home to England. They would be sent to the officer commanding in South Africa, and he would send them Home. 191. Would they not be available here for making up the roll?—I dare say they would be if they were asked for. 192. The only officers able to make up the roll would be officers having special knowledge?— Yes. I think the Fourth Contingent was the only contingent that met with such a disaster as to lose their records; but if the Seventh, Eighth, and Ninth Contingents had all their rolls and order-books complete 1 do not see how personal knowledge could be absolutely necessary there. 193. How do you account for losing your rolls? —One night when we were crossing a spruit we got stuck, the Boers fired on us, and we had to leave everything in the hands of the enemy. 194. Then, it is a case of a man having a good memory ?- That is exactly it. 195. And only an officer having special knowledge could prepare the roll? —No. A sergeant or trooper could prepare it, but it would have to be signed at the foot by an officer. 196. By the officer in charge at the time? —Yes; the commanding officer of the regiment would be the proper officer to sign it. 197. At all events, you would have considered yourself well paid if you had got the £4 a week? —I should have been very glad at the time, I can assure you. 198. Mr. Wood (to Captain Clark).] How many contingents did you go out with? —One. 199. What was that?— The second. 200. And according to the evidence, you are supposed to have personal knowledge of all the other contingents-that is, nine contingents? —Personal knowledge of three contingents to which I belonged. 201. You were with three contingents? —Yes; strictly speaking, four. 202. And there were others that you had no personal knowledge of? —The First, Second, and Third Contingents were in the field together, under Colonel Robin. After taking Bloemfontein, we joined together. I afterwards went with the Sixth, and we were witing for the Seventh to arrive. A number of the officers of the Sixth were transfers, and were strangers to me. I was only with the Sixth a little under six weeks. By that time the Seventh had arrived, and 1 was transferred to that. I did not meet the Fourth and Fifth in the field, but all the officers and men were transferred in a mass to the Seventh, and I put a term in in the Seventh, and gained a special knowledge of the men. The Seventh went Home, and I transferred to the Ninth. The Eighth I did not meet in the field. I knew a number of the officers personally that had been out in the Third, Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Contingents, and in some cases in the Eighth. Some of the Ninth got transferred, and I served with the Ninth until I came home, so I maintain that 1 had more general knowledge than any other man who had come from New Zealand. 203. But there are some contingents that you knew absolutely nothing about I—That1 —That might be said of the Tenth, and yet I knew most of the officers. 204. Mr. E. McKenzie.] How many men were there in those ten contingents? —6,700, 1 think. 205. Does that include both officers and men? —Yes, there were practically 7,000. 206. How long were you in South Africa? —Two years and five months. 207. What do you reckon you could know of those men personally?--! could know a greal deal. 208. Is there really anything in your personal knowledge which gives you special facility in compiling these rolls? —Yes, there is. Witness (to Mr. Butler) : Will you tell us, as Chief Clerk in the Commandant's office, what books and papers there are on record there belonging to the Fourth and Fifth New Zealand Contingents? — Mr. Butler: I do not know exactly what books there are, but I can get them from my subordinates. I know where to find them. Q. Mr. Mabin stated that you had the records, and that if you had the records of the contingents, it would be quite an easy matter to compile the rolls? —A. It would not be an ear- matter, but it could be done. Q. Can you tell me what records

4—l. Ib.