a—s.

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J. H. POPE.

future will probably have to wield far more instruments than the pen, the rifle, and the cricketball. It may be remarked, too, that while it is well that scholastic institutions should be strong at games, and many other kinds of athletic exercises also, and that proficiency in these could, to some small extent at all events, serve as a substitute for ability to use the saw, the plane, the hammer, the compass, and the square, it may perhaps, be taken for granted that the most athletically minded of men would hardly maintain that cricket, or even football, can be justly considered a means for giving the thorough training of hand and eye which is going to be before very long a necessary part of an educated man's equipment. . . . Teachers whose life experience of teaching and being taught extends over more than, say, sixty years know quite well that there has in that time been a gradual shortening of the hours of work, and much more than corresponding increase of efficiency. These two facts are, on the whole, beyond question. The long experience of the present writer very possibly gives him a kind of right to have an opinion on the subject, and he holds that the limits of decrease of school-time for mental subjects, and simultaneous increase of efficiency of teachers, have not yet been reached; and he would venture to prophesy, if prophesying were one of his functions, that within ten years the limits for such hard mental work will be, for boy and man, about four hours a day —less rather than more. On the other hand, the ancient 'school-teaching,' which consists of sitting in the midst of a class and hearing pupils ' recite lessons ' for five or six hours a day, will be even more obsolete than it is now. Should these contentions prove correct—and it is worth some trouble to find whether they are correct or not—the problem of manual work for Native schools would be as good as solved, for the hour or hour and a half saved could be devoted to technical occupations of one kind and another. Then, with an hour and a half a day besides for singing and drill, and for pure recreation, a very pretty time-table for a day's occupations could be easily framed." That is the point I had reached in 1901. One could go a little further now, possibly. 23. With regard to the question of time occupied in athletics —football, cricket, and so on: what is your opinion about that? —I think it is a very important subject, but too much time should not be given to it. It tends to make a boy an all-round man; but it is pretty obvious that it might easily be overdone. 24. You approve of it in moderation ?—Yes. I should have a reasonable time devoted to education proper, including technical work; then, outside of that I think a fair, moderate amount of athletic work would be altogether in place. I have not heard of any one who thinks differently —that is, any one worth paying much attention to. 25. Do you not think it is essential that there should be a fair amount of time occupied in training the body as well as the mind ?-—Certainly. 26. You think they should be trained together as far as possible?-—I think so. 27. Now, the question of the handicapping of Maori boys in their matriculation work, in that they have to secure the same percentage of marks as Europeans, came before us: Do you think they are unfairly handicapped?—l do not believe it. I think, especially as it has been shown that Maori boys can do the thing, that it would be a great pity to lower the standard. It is now a great achievement for a Maori boy to pass for matriculation, and a still greater for him to get a degree. I think, though, more ought to be made of the fact that the Maori has uphill work, although I do not believe in the plan of making allowances for the Maori, seeing that he does not really require it. When we find one Maori taking high honours in arts, and another obtaining a medical degree, we can hardly see real need for any handicap, even although the work, produce some strain. There is another thing to be said, if any allowance were made the honours that a Maori gained would at once lose their value. This would be my chief reason for opposing handicapping. 28. Have you been able to gather the opinion of the Maori people themselves with regard to the industrial training of their children?—l know that generally they are greatly in favour of it. 29. They have used the argument that they have plenty of land, and it is desirable their young people should be trained to go on the land and to utilise it, and therefore it would be better to give them a thorough insight into farming operations and agricultural work, and all that kind of thing, in the school, so as to fit them to take their place on the land after they leave school?—I think that is a thing not to be lost sight of, but feel sure that the only hope for the Maori—the only thing that will make the Maori continue to hold an equal place with Europeans of his own rank in life, and with Europeans generally, and make him able on occasion to appear as a European amongst Europeans—is being called upon to do the work that the European does. It seems to me that if a Maori's time is going to be entirely taken up with subjects that do not strengthen the mind or train it, he must fall behind. It is reasonable to believe that Maoris must have among them men of light and leading, if they are not to sink down. I myself feel positive of that. 30. I do not for a moment suggest that they should not have these opportunities; but is it not the opinion of the Maori people themselves that their children should be more particularly trained in industrial branches?—l have heard that mooted, but very seldom. I think it must be a comparatively recent thing, if their minds are full of it now. Anyway, it appears to me that there is a certain amount of reason in it. Ido not see why agriculture, chemistry, and scientific farming, • and so on, should not take the place in'many cases of a university education. One advantage connected with work for the Matriculation Examination is that it serves as preparatory work for such things as scientific farming. It gives a very good basis for a man in any class of life in which head-work has te go along with hand-work. 31. Do you think there should be some system of classification, or what Mr. Thornton calls a " sifting process," by which the teachers in the school could pick out the boys fitted to go on to the University and into higher education, and draft off the other boys not so fitted into industrial pursuits? Do you think something of that sort should be done rather than trying to educate seventy or eighty boys through the Matriculation Examination, and only getting three or four to