G.—s.

80

[j. H. POPE.

46. Mr. Hogg.] Have you met with many of the Te Aute School boys after they have left the College?— Yes. You know one cannot ride about the country for nearly a quarter of a century without meeting them. 47. Do you find that these boys are able to converse with you freely in English?— Well, it comes as a surprise to me that there should be such a question. I should be very much surprised if a boy who had gone through anything like the ordinary course was not able to talk to me very fairly well, and very well after a ten minutes' talk. 48. We find the pupils are taught to translate Latin into English, but not Maori into English: how is it that Euclid and algebra are taught, and that such a thing as book-keeping is entirely omitted in that school? —Book-keeping is certainly a useful branch. I daresay it would not be hurtful to introduce it into a place like Te Aute; but I am inclined to look upon book-keeping as being very like a special trade. lam prepared to admit it might be a useful thing if taught in the school if the master had a special bent that way, but I should not like just yet to make it one of the compulsory subjects, especially when the time is so short, and when so much has to be done with the science of which book-keeping and kindred activities are offshots. 49. You have told us that you think clever boys amongst the Maoris should have an opportunity of obtaining a superior education : could that not be done by simply taking them from the ordinary schools and placing them in our European high schools and universities?— This is , a very big question, and it is one that requires answering, I believe; but I think it ought to be a great object with Maori educationists to do nothing that will put their clients entirely out of touch with their own people. 50. But is it fair that ninety-five out of a hundred Maori youths, to put it that way, should be kept for a year or two learning Euclid, algebra, Latin, and other branches of education that will be of no use whatever to them after they leave school, in order that five may receive a superior education in their company?—l think that this rather begs the question. The work is not altogether done in order that the five may be educated and the others may be left out in the cold. That is a consequence in some cases; but I think that to support your view it would be necessary to show that the five are thoroughly well educated and that the others do not receive any benefit. Now, two or three of them who have not the necessary ability may go but little beyond their starting point; but I do not think it is fair to take what the others —the pupils that are neither geniuses nor dullards —have learned as being worth nothing. Of course, it is very hard, to quote an example, that fifty or sixty horses should be trained for months and months, and that only one horse should get the prize. It seems to me that the horses that do not get the prize may still be greatly benefited by the training received, and the progress of horse-racing (though T am not a racing man myself) may be very beneficial to the breed of horses in general. 51. Mr. Lee.] When you first examined the school I suppose it was altogether a primary school? —Even then the idea was, so far as I have understood it, to give the young Maoris an opportunity of getting a high-class education and to get from amongst the Maoris young men of light and leading who should be guides and beacons for the rest of the young people. 52. That may be, but still I suppose Latin was not introduced into the school at first? —I think it was. Of course, I had not to do with the school from the very first. '53. Has the headmaster of the school generally taken his direction from you in the matter of the curriculum of the school ?—Well, I endeavoured not to make it a matter of direction. I used to discuss things with Mr. Thornton, and say I should do this in such-and-such a way, and so on. I set forth what seemed to me the reason of the case, and then, if things turned out well, it was all right; if they did not turn out so well, the fault was not exactly mine, I thought. 54. Am I right in saying you approve of Te Aute being made the secondary school in the colony for the Maori?— Well, I should like that question to be answered by Professor Kirk and Mr. Bird rather than by myself. I wish to say that at the time when I left the school two years and a half ago it really held that place, and I thought it was a proper one for it to hold; not because it was perfect—it is not, in the nature of things, possible for such an institution to be perfect—but I thought it was then the leading school of the Maori schools of New Zealand. 55. Have you always approved of the teaching of Latin throughout the school?—I do not think I could have approved of it throughout the school. 56. Do you recognise that there are great differences in faculty of mind and also in quality of mind in Maori as well as in European children? —Surely. 57. Do you not think then that it would be well, somewhere about the Fifth Standard, to specialise in a school of this description so that the boys who have no faculty for Latin should have their time devoted to other subjects more useful to them? —Yes, I am prepared to agree with that. 58. You are in favour of technical education, properly so-called?— Decidedly. 59. Do you think that the technical education given should be technical education in agriculture for the most part, or would you suggest that it should be woodwork or some other branch of technical education I —l think it would be well, as far as possible, to have in the future the teaching of general principles, always with considerable reference to actual practical uses. 60. That is what I understand by technical education—l am referring to the principles of agriculture?—l say then, "Yes, theoretical and practical as far as possible." 61. Do you think the teaching staff of Te Aute College, as far as you have known it, has been satisfactory: that it has consisted of qualified men ?—There have been some very good men indeed there. Changes have been moderately frequent. 62. Do you think that Maori should be taught as English would be taught to English boys in an English school —that is to say, that the Maori youths should be taught the Maori language and the Maori legends: that the parts of the Maori language which would be classical should be taught as part of the instruction for Maori boys?—l am inclined to think that it would be better to leave