Q.—6.

88

JG. HOGBEN.

22. Are you aware that the accounts are furnished annually to the Waiapu Diocesan Synod, and also triennially to the General Synod ?■—l am aware of that, but Ido not call that publication for the purpose I mean. It is a publication to the members of the Synod, and I want a publication to the people of New Zealand, who gave the Crown grant. The accounts should be audited by a public auditor of some kind, and they should be published in a form that will show the same kind of facts that are shown by secondary schools. 23. Do you,know that in the early days particulars were laid on the table of the Upper House? —Yes. Ido not think much of those accounts. They were not complete accounts. 24. Is it your opinion that the Te Aute and other similar schools should be compelled to file full, true, and particular account of their receipts and expenditure?—l think they should be forwarded to the Minister in the same way as the others, to be laid on the table of the House. The Minister has to lay them on the table of the House. 25. You suggest that the accounts should be audited by a Government auditor, or by an auditor to be approved by the Department?—l think if the Government auditor could do it that would be best. Otherwise it ought to be an auditor approved by the Minister. 26. Now, there is a recital in our Commission in these words: "Whereas it is alleged that the lands have not been let by public tender or otherwise to the best advantage." It is admitted they were not let by public tender, but does your Department allege that the lands were not let to the best advantage? —No. 27. Do you know who does so allege?—lt was set forth, I understand, as an indication of the scope of the inquiry, but not as an allegation from the Department. We have no knowledge. 28. Well, it has not been alleged then that the lands have not been let to the best advantage?— Not by the Department. 29. Do you know who has alleged it?—No; I have no knowledge of that. 30. We exhausted at Napier all the evidence we could get on the question of the bona fides of the trustees and the adequacy of the rent which is being paid, and we could not find anybody who is prepared to say that the lease was not a proper lease ?—Then probably the Commissioners have succeeded in resolving the inquiry. 31. Mr. Lee.] Might I ask you whether in this scheme you have taken into account the difference of faculty in boys and the difference also of environment in boys —that is to say, one boy might wish to go into the Civil Service rather than take up agricultural pursuits, and another boy might wish to take up engineering or mechanical work. Do you differentiate in any sort of way, or do you rather specialise as to any divergence from the scheme you have suggested ?—As far as difference of faculty and difference of environment are concerned, that rather assumes if you teach elementary agriculture, you are at once and immediately specialising. It does not follow. If a boy has been living in the country the best subject on which you can train his mind scientifically is a subject connected with the life he has seen around him since he has been observant at all. So the very best subject from the point of view of general education for a boy who is living in the country is a subject that is connected with country life—that is, for the purposes of general education. You can give just as good scientific training; you can train the observation just as well, and you can train the reasoning just as well—the connecting together of facts that have been observed and the forming of general principles from these facts —just as well from agriculture as you can, to quote an example of yesterday, from electricity. They both deal with facts of nature. A boy is taught by his own observation, by his own work, by his own hands to observe the facts, so that up to a certain point the work is just as good as any other branch of science for general education; and for a oountry boy it is generally best —in fact, I would make it a rule of education in the beginning, whatever you do afterwards, to teach him scientific method through, a subject that pertains to the life he has lived. If you do not, you take him from the known, to the unknown right away. Whether you intend to make him a professor or not, you must start at the beginning. Therefore it is essential you must train every boy in a science somewhat cognate to the life he is acquainted with. Most Maori boys come from the country. Nature has been around them ever since they could think at all, and it is not unnatural you should take that as a subject of their general education, and give them, through it, the scientific training they want. So I should not call it specialising to teach them agriculture. You could make it really secondary work. Secondary work does not really depend on the subject, but on the method, on the development of thought, and you can make this just as much a secondary subject as if you take up chemistry or electricity, or some other science. Then, take the difference of faculty. Well, the general education we give to boys is a kind of rough approximation to what the average boy can do. We have to teach boys in large numbers, and we cannot take quite the same notice of individual faculty as if we took the boys separately. We gain something by faking them in large numbers, and we lose something. We generally think that by taking them in moderate numbers we gain more than we lose. You cannot give quite the same attention to individual faculty, but when that difference of faculty reaches the stage that they have to choose a profession, then comes the time for specialisation. Well, supposing the boy wished to go into the Civil Service, the course I have sketched out at Te Aute would enable him thoroughly well to take up the c»urse for the Civil Service Junior Examination. For that examination he has to take five or more subjects. He must take English and arithmetic. Well, I have said that every boy at Te Aute should take English and arithmetic. Then he must take one subject from this group : Geography, elementary mechanics, heat and light, magnetism and electricity, elementary chemistry, elementary geology, elementary botany, elementary zoology, elementary physiology, elementary physical measurements, elementary practical agriculture. Well, that provides that he can take elementary practical agriculture. Well, he can also take two or three of these other subjects: Elementary mathematics, Greek, Latin, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Maori, English history, shorthand, book-keeping and commercial correspondence, drawing. Now, an exceedingly good group for a Maori boy to take at Te Aute which would give him a thorough good