G.—fi.

90

IG. HOGBEN.

a reference made to the character of the teaching. One man distinctly asked me what was the good of teaching his boy algebra. Ido not know whether he mentioned Latin; but I brought away in my mind the idea that he meant the whole of these things. He distinctly said he would like his boy to learn woodwork. He said, so far as I recollect, " What will make us better here is to have our boys come back and be able to show us how to build better houses. If we do not live in better houses we shall never be better than we are now." 43. What was brought before you was more in the nature of suggestions as to improvements than anything in the nature of complaints?— Yes. 44. Have they complained about the food the boys received ?—No ; I do not think they have any grounds for complaint in regard to food. 45. Now, in the case of a large boarding-school like this, inspected by your Department, is attention devoted to the dietary scale, and is that produced ?—The last time 1 was there I asked them if they had a dietary scale. They had a dietary scale apparently in a way, but they could not show it to me in the same way as I could see one if I went to an industrial school. I saw the boys at their meals, and saw the amount of food that was consumed during the week, and 1 tested one or two items. We know what quantities are required for proper sustenance, and the quantities provided seemed quite sufficient. 46. The Chairman.] The appearance of the boys is the best criterion?— Yes; that is the great thing. I think I have been accustomed to boys so much, and have examined for that purpose so often, that I should soon notice if they were not properly fed. 47. Mr. Hogg.] Are you aware if any boys have been withdrawn from that school because their health has suffered on account of improper or insufficient food ?—I do not know of any such case. 48. I presume the chief aim of the Native Schools Department is to give the boys and girls a sound English education ?—That is one of the essentials. 49. Do they pass any examination before they leave the school to show that they are thoroughly versed in the English language, and able to read and write it?—We examine them every year. 50. Are you aware whether many of them are able afterwards to converse fluently and fairly in English ?—Yes; there are a great many. 51. Can you explain how it is that some of these Te Aute boys who have been through the College are not able to give evidence, for instance, without the aid of an interpreter?— You mean they did not; they were able to do so all the same. 52. Who is to tell that when they profess they are not able to? —You mentioned the name of one who was not able to —Mr. Tomoana. He speaks English as well as any Englishman, but he sometimes does not think it expedient he should do it. Mr. Hone Heke speaks in the House with an interpreter sometimes, and there is no better English speaker in New Zealand, 53. But is any pains taken to ascertain whether these boys generally are able to speak English?—ln travelling about the colony I frequently meet Te Aute and St, Stephen's boys, and it is very rarely that I find they cannot talk thoroughly well in English. 54. Then, it is a most singular thing, because I could name boys in Masterton who have been through Te Aute who have great difficulty in speaking English?— Some of them will go back. I met a Frenchman some years ago who had lived until he was thirty or forty years old in France, and afterwards had lived in that part of New Zealand I was in, and he was asked to interpret for two French sailors left behind from their steamer; he could not understand them, and they could not understand him; but I would not say he had not been thoroughly taught French when a boy. It depends on the practice you have. Of course, English is a foreign language to the Maoris. There are a good many reasons why they should choose to speak in Maori. Their thoughts run more easily in their mother-tongue. 55. You are dealing now with exceptional cases. Will you be surprised to learn that some of these Te Aute boys who have received a College education, and who are known intimately to me as men who have been mixing constantly with. Europeans, have extreme difficulty in conversing in English?—lt is not exceptional cases I was dealing with. We will take French. The number of people who have learned French for five or six years, and then get no practice in the language: take them ten years afterwards, and it is not the exception to find a man who cannot speak French; it is the exception to find a man who can speak French. Well, these people have gone back to speaking Maori after leaving school. They are exactly in the same position as a man who has had- not merely a schoolboy knowledge of French, but at one time had a working knowledge of French. Unless they keep the language up they lose it to a certain extent. 56. Do you not think it is a regrettable fact that Maori boys and girls who go to school to be taught English should afterwards forget it?—lt is a regrettable fact that a man should ever forget anything he learns, but it is a fact nevertheless. 57. Can you explain how it is that the translation of Maori into English and English into Maori is neglected in these Native schools generally? —And a very proper thing too. It is my strong opinion that it is fundamentally wrong to teach them English, through Maori. 58. But do you not think the Maori language has a right to be preserved?— That is a different question. You are asking me now wdiether we should not teach them English by translating Maori. The way to teach a language is to teach the boy as you teach the child to speak the language of his home. 59. Is it not preferable to teach live languages in this way rather than dead languages: for instance, Latin is translated in our principal schools into English and English into Latin as a mental training?—lt is the wrong way to teach it. That is being recognised now, and in certain States of Germany it is absolutely required in teaching Latin that the teacher shall speak Latin. This is beginning to be recognised also in England; all the newest books published for the teaching of Latin have Latin conversations in them, to enable the teachers to use that method of teaching Latin, and not the translation method,