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this morning in which they say the last 3 knots would just double the consumption of coal, or very nearly, which is a very great item. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Lord Elgin and gentlemen, I am a little disappointed, I candidly say, at the suggested speed of this line of steamers as outlined by my friend, Sir Wilfrid Laurier. I think it is too slow. If we want to do something really practical in this matter, we want to recognise what the existing condition of matters until a short time ago has been from the standpoint of the furthermost of the British countries affected. There is a route now from New Zealand to London via San Francisco.by the American route which we used for many years. This suggestion now made is to practically give us about the same time to London via Canada that we have been enjoying from New Zealand for a long period of years via San Francisco. It has been quite a common matter for mails to reach London from New Zealand in 27 or 28 days and vice versa.' If we are, and I am sure we are, practically sincere and anxious to bring into very much closer touch all portions of the outlying colonies, we ought to have some improvement upon what has been in existence for quite a number of years. From the standpoint of New Zealand, although we are quite willing to come into this matter in order to have an effective service, if it is going to be only equal to what we have been getting with comparatively a small subsidy from our country, then from our point of view we are not going to get ahead very far. Sir Wilfrid Laurier is very anxious I know to bring about an improved service, and I want New Zealand to help to the utmost capacity. I attach the greatest importance to speed and efficiency. T went from this country specially in 1895 to Ottawa to interview the then Government in Canada in order to have a mail contract entered into between New Zealand and Canada via Vancouver to give us that alternative route as against the American one. We wanted to have the Vancouver one all through the piece, and we entered into the contract at that time for a very suitable service, but unfortunately difficulties with the contractors supervened, and that service was for various reasons withdrawn from New Zealand and transferred to Queensland, and that rendered the service from New Zealand to Canada, and Canada to England impracticable. If we are prepared only to give a moderate subsidy towards obtaining such a service as suggested here, then I admit the possibilities of getting a fast service are very remote. My idea was, and is now, that New Zealand at all events, should give an incomparably larger sum than it has ever given for the purpose of bringing it closer to England. We have had the authority of Parliament of 40,000/. a year for years past; that is 20,000/. each To the one via Vancouver and the other via, San Francisco. lam prepared to say that our country would be prepared to go to 100,000/. a year without a moment's hesitation in order to get a fast service across the Pacific and through Canada across the Atlantic if it were one of say twenty days or three weeks. But I want more than 18 knots an hour and 1 will give my reasons. This proposal ought to be divided into two; first there should be an effort made to get a fast service from the English coast to Canada, and that service ought to be a 22-knot service at least. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : 24. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Or for preference a 24-knot service. You get steamers now running from here to New York which do the journey right through frequently at 21 knots an hour over the whole passage. I went across nearly at 22 knots myself 12 years ago. It is only a question of money whether you can get a speed of the kind Tt is admitted and must be conceded from the steamship owners' point of view, that to have a 23-knot or even 24-knot service to Canada with a number of days when the steamer has to provide for coaling and incidental attendance to machinery is quite within

Fifteenth Day. 14 May 1907.

Mail Service to Australia ani> New Zealand via Canada. (Sir William Lyne.)

73—A. 5.

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