A—s

570

the bounds of possibility, and there is no difficulty provided you like to pay enough money for it. Conceive the possibility of that service being carried across at 23 knots an hour That brings Canada and England within four days of one another. Beyond all doubt we are quite prepared to give our proportion for such a service on the Pacific between Canada and New Zealand so as to make the other portion of the link between the Colonies and the Old World. Sir Wilfrid Laurier has said, and I have heard it said by other Canadian gentlemen, well-informed too, that it is quite possible to do the Canadian journey across that continent by rail in four days. That makes eight days from England to Vancouver. Now, come to the question of the Pacific. I may be taking too sanguine a view of it, but I base all my remarks upon the one potential factor, that if you want to have this close connection you must pay sufficient money for steamers of large tonnage — passenger and mail steamers only, I should say, except for the purpose of carrying certain cargo between Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. To expect it to be used for a cargo service throughout, from Australia and New Zealand across Canada to England is to expect what is not possible. Ido not contemplate it will ever be possible to carry cargo across the Canadian continent and tranship it at both ends. For ordinary cargo purposes, we ought from a practical, common-sense, business standpoint, to rely for transport, as every country in the world does, on tramps, keeping them quite distinct from a passenger and mail service. Between Australia and England the great proportion of cargo coming from there is carried by cargo steamers — tramps. It is quite true the great liners provide a certain amount of cold storage for perishable products, but they carry only a limited quantity of cargo. If we are going to mix up the two systems, and try, as it were, to call for the moon by expecting to have a cargo service, and a fast passenger service across the Atlantic, across Canada, and the Pacific all in one, we might as well agree to abandon it altogether and let it go. It is not possible to bring about anything practical in that way at all. 1 apply my remarks, first of all, to providing a large subsidy, which is essential, and which I think the countries ought to be prepared to pay if they want to do something practical. Then, next come the possibilities across the Pacific; the distance from Vancouver to Wellington is 6,589 miles, to Auckland it is 279 miles less. If this Vancouver service is carried out lam sure Australia has the sentiment, and we have it too, that we ought to remove every element of parochialism of every possible kind, and should establish a service which is the swiftest and best for the whole of us. If this service, as is indicated here, is to go to Sydney first, and then on to New Zealand from England, we would not give anything whatever to it. I say that very frankly, because that would be putting the cart before the horse. The nearest country from Vancouver is New Zealand, and the first touched at ought to be the country which is nearest, and then it should pass on to the other country, which is to have the first turn coming backwards from Australia to Vancouver, and which would be the first pface to receive benefits of that kind. It should only touch at New Zealand, Sydney remaining the terminal port, and getting all the benefits of the terminal business, and the employment of labour supplying provisions attendant upon it. If you want this service to be a success, the only country the boats should touch first is the country en route either going or coming. I want to discuss the possibilities from a New Zealand point of view, because we have an alternative, and that alternative I should reluctantly carry out on behalf of our country, that is, to put our money down and run a service via San Francisco. Unless the British Government, Canada, and Australia recognise the position in which New Zealand is, that we are a growing country and an important country, though a smaller country than some of the others, we cannot afford as a developing country and a progressing country to be kept at a great distance from England, owing to our circumstances as to geographical position. We

Fifteenth Day. 14 May 1907.

Mail Service to Australia and New Zealand via Canada. (Sir Joseph Ward.)