571

A.—s

cannot allow that condition of matters to exist. I am making my own position clear and not presuming to suggest what anybody else thinks, but from the point of view of New Zealand, in order to approach this from the practical point of the usefulness to England, to Canada, and to New Zealand, and to Australia, too, the route for that service distinctly from the Pacific side would be shorter from Vancouver to Auckland, which, as I say, is nearly 300 miles shorter than the distance stated in this chart furnished here. It is about 6,300 miles to Auckland from Vancouver. The contractors at their option would call at either Wellington or Auckland. I approach it from the standpoint that we must have New Zealand as one of the intermediate ports for touching at only, that is, steamers would remain there half-a-dozen hours as has been the case all along with the San Francisco mail steamers. We gave the major portion of the subsidy to that service, and Australia, Sydney especially, got the full benefit of it. being a terminal port, and giving a very small amount of subsfdy towards it. That position we recognised as unavoidable. Now coming to the question of the speed across the Pacific, there are two touching places for coaling. From Vancouver to Honolulu, with a service such as we are contemplating here, would be done under three days. Dr. JAMESON : You are limiting your remarks to a fast mail service, nothing to do with cargo at all ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes, I said we require cargo to be carried by tramps. This is a fast mail service—a passenger service with a fast speed, such as, if we gave a large contribution from our country, we should expect. For coaling purposes and for the necessities of carrying on a big steamship service, Honolulu is within three days steam of Vancouver. It is only four days under the existing service from San Francisco to Honolulu with the ordinary steamers trading there, and only four days when the San Francisco steamers were running to New Zealand. The next point is from Honolulu to Suva, which is the other place they would touch at. That would be about six days with the high speed lam talking of. It was done in seven or eight days with the mail steamers that were engaged. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : At what speed \ Sir JOSEPH WARD : Only 15 or 16 knots. Then from Suva to New Zealand would be well under three days. The coaling places referred to by Sir William Lyne, which is the all-important element from a steamship point of view, are within easy distance for fast steamers which require coal at intervals, and require a few hours' rest at intervals for machinery purposes. The question arises what speed is a steamer to put into operation to cross the Pacific ? While Sir Wilfrid Laurier was speaking, I was looking into the matter and I find that with under a 22-knot service — only a little over 21 knots —the whole business from Vancouver to New Zealand could be done in practically 13 days. The whole point comes back to this : Are you looking at the Pacific Ocean as a long sheet of water upon which a steamer is supposed to be coaled up to the eyes, and prepared up to the hilt to do a 6,000 mile journey without any assistance whatever in the way of coaling facilities ? Sir WILFRID LAURIER : You can only stop at Honolulu for coal. Sir JOSEPH WARD : And at Suva, which is within six days steam from Honolulu. It is the stopping point now from Honolulu, and so you get a coaling depot at Honolulu, and a depot at Suva, and a coaling depot at Auckland. Now, our steamers do it in 3 days 3 hours from Auckland to Sydney, which is quite common. With a steamer of the speed lam speaking of, they would do it under three days quite easily.

Fifteenth Day, 14 May 1907.

Mail Service to Australia and N'i:\v Zealand via Canada. (Sir Joseph Ward.)