A—s

576

so far could change me from it—l know, under the mail arrangements we want to carry out, that it is a necessity that Sydney should be the terminal port for the steamers That is right. That means steamers must wait there a week or more for the purpose of overhauling and all kinds of things, and from the point of view of an effective mail service via Vancouver, New Zealand must be the point first touched at on the outward route, because they have to wait so long when they get to Sydney for all the attendant work required on the steamer. So, of necessity, in any route we are considering, and any proposal, if you want to carry it out practically you must link New Zealand as the first port outward from Vancouver; otherwise, as far as we are concerned, we have to wait for seven or eight days after the steamer has been to Sydney. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : Could it not be done by a branch service from Fiji ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : No, that means another transhipment, and people will not stand it in these times. Dr. JAMESON : That is just the point it must come to, practically, in plain language, between Australia and New Zealand as to which gets the service first. I should like to see that dealt with later on, so as not to prejudice the Canadian suggestion as to a fast service practically from England to Vancouver. Mr. DEAKIN : I do not controvert what Sir Joseph Ward has said at all, but my allusion to it simply pointed to the fact that if your steamers do not carry cargo you have to give them a larger subsidy. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Especially for a very fast line of steamers. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I think in New South Wales we transferred the subsidy from Queensland to the Vancouver service to help us, and we have refused to support Spreckels, who is the owner of the American line, two or three times during the last few years. To support the Vancouver route we gave all we could to that route instead. Sir JOSEPH WARD : We have offered to give the same amount all through the piece to Vancouver. We have for years paid the money for San Francisco, because it was the only line we could get. If we were driven into the same position we would have to do it again. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Lord Elgin and gentlemen, I am very glad Sir Wilfrid Laurier has brought forward a proposal which we can examine without coming into conflict with any popular mandate and highly controversial topics like the fiscal question. lam only sorry that we did not get this in time to enable us to give real consideration to it, and to enable us also to put forward considered views before the Conference. The first I saw of this scheme was yesterday. I think I saw the resolution last night, and the resolution which is placed on the paper to-day is different in one or two material particulars. We have done our best in the very short time which has been placed at our disposal for considering such a very important business proposition, and we have made some inquiries with regard to it. Even this discussion has shown what a very difficult problem it is, and what a many-sided problem it is. You have to consider a good many things. You have to"consider the best route. As to the desirability of bringing New

Fifteenth Day. 14 May 1907.

Mail Service to Australia and New Zealand via Canada. (Sir Joseph Ward.)